Showing Up

[00:00:02] Speaker A: Hey, welcome. It's good to be back with you listeners again, this is the Generation Spark podcast. My name's Ron DeVries, and joining me today is the wonderful colleague of mine from the RCA, Anna Radcliffe center. [00:00:14] Speaker B: Hi, Ron. How are you? [00:00:16] Speaker A: Good, how are you? [00:00:17] Speaker B: We're in person. [00:00:18] Speaker A: I love this. [00:00:19] Speaker B: People can't see us, but you are not in Canada. I know you're here in Grand Rapids. [00:00:23] Speaker A: And what's beautiful about this is the weather here is glorious. [00:00:26] Speaker B: Yes. For you. Well, just for you, because they know it's going to snow, you know. [00:00:31] Speaker A: Do you know we had snow already? [00:00:33] Speaker B: I'm sure you did. [00:00:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:00:34] Speaker B: Awful. [00:00:35] Speaker A: It's horrible. [00:00:35] Speaker B: Yeah, it's horrible, but it's not snowing here. [00:00:38] Speaker A: I'm so grateful. So grateful. Anna, we got a really important guest with us today, a dear friend, very good friend, Jeff Hernandez. Jeff, welcome. [00:00:48] Speaker C: Hey, friends. [00:00:49] Speaker B: Hi, Jeff. [00:00:49] Speaker C: It's good to see you both. [00:00:51] Speaker A: Tell us a little bit about yourself, Jeff. [00:00:52] Speaker C: Yeah, so, I'm Jeff Fernandez. I'm a youth pastor in Portage, Michigan, at a church called the bridge. Been working with students for tiny, tiny amount of time. Just this much. Yeah, actually, this much, right? Yeah, just that much. Yeah. [00:01:05] Speaker B: I'm gonna let you give a formal introduction, but just so everyone gets a visual. He has a full sleeve. [00:01:10] Speaker C: I do. [00:01:11] Speaker B: And an earring. [00:01:13] Speaker C: Two, even two earrings. Yeah. [00:01:14] Speaker B: So he's not what you. Maybe he's exactly what you picture as a youth pastor. And maybe he's nothing. [00:01:19] Speaker A: I'm not picturing skinny jeans, though. [00:01:21] Speaker C: No, I don't. At all. I'm way too old for skinny. Yeah. [00:01:23] Speaker A: Yeah, so am I. Yeah, too old. [00:01:25] Speaker B: Sorry. Introduce yourself. [00:01:26] Speaker C: No, I love it, actually. October will be 33 years. I've been working with students and love that so much. Been married for almost 29 years. Got two kids that are just incredible. My daughter just got married. Lots of life going on, so good days. [00:01:45] Speaker A: And he drives a jeep like, I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. That's his signature out the window right now. There's no top on it. Right now. [00:01:52] Speaker C: There's no top and there's no doors. She's been riding. Well, in the jeep world, we call that riding naked. Yeah. So the driver actually has clothing, but. [00:02:01] Speaker B: The jeep does not. [00:02:02] Speaker C: Let's just clarify. [00:02:03] Speaker B: Yeah, that's helpful. [00:02:04] Speaker C: Yeah. That's been naked for. Since April. [00:02:08] Speaker B: Have you been ducked? [00:02:10] Speaker C: Oh, so many times. [00:02:11] Speaker B: This is an interesting jeep phenomenon. Do you know where it originates? [00:02:15] Speaker C: It's from COVID actually. It was during COVID that somebody stuck. [00:02:18] Speaker A: Okay, you have to explain that to me. Cause I'm not sure what that is. [00:02:21] Speaker C: So jeeps. If you're in a Jeep Wrangler, and it's specific to the Wrangler family. Okay. Wrangler drivers will find another wrangler that they think is nice, looks good, and they'll stick a little rubber ducky on. [00:02:36] Speaker B: Your windshield, and then you keep it and you put it, like, inside the windshield as like a. [00:02:42] Speaker C: Well, some people do that. [00:02:43] Speaker B: You don't do that. I think in your naked jeep, they fly out. You'd be ducking people like Mario Kart. [00:02:48] Speaker C: Some people. Like, I've seen people line their. [00:02:51] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness. Me too. [00:02:52] Speaker C: And friends, if you're that person, we're just gonna pray for you. But I do not do that, actually. [00:02:58] Speaker A: Oh. [00:02:58] Speaker B: It just shows how many people think their car is cool. [00:03:00] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:03:01] Speaker B: Okay. I can see where you're praying for them. [00:03:03] Speaker C: Yep. [00:03:05] Speaker B: Okay. So you drive a cool jeep. [00:03:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:03:07] Speaker B: You've been in youth ministry for 33 years. [00:03:10] Speaker C: Yeah. Wow. [00:03:11] Speaker A: And one of the things I love about Jeff is in that youth ministry space. You've a heart for intergenerational music. [00:03:18] Speaker C: I do, yeah. [00:03:19] Speaker A: And we're going to be talking a little bit about that as we dive deeper. But before we do, uh, kind of just something fun. I want to talk about our favorite fall food. Now, when we talk about food, like, you're a bit of a foodie. I know that, Jeff and Anna, I know you love your food as well. [00:03:35] Speaker B: Love it. [00:03:36] Speaker A: I've been to your house. We've had pizza. [00:03:38] Speaker B: Oh, that was humbling. [00:03:40] Speaker A: But it was good. [00:03:40] Speaker B: Yeah, it was very good. [00:03:41] Speaker A: It was good. And if my wife has taught me anything, it's to appreciate good food. [00:03:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:03:47] Speaker A: So I'd love to hear from both of you. What's your favorite fall food? Now, it could be a dessert. It can be a meal. It can be. I'm not gonna throw beverage in there, because I think that just makes it too complicated. [00:03:58] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, there's a lot. [00:03:59] Speaker A: Let's stick with the edible. [00:04:01] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:04:02] Speaker A: So, Anna, you wanna start or Jeff? [00:04:04] Speaker C: Oh, I'm ready to go. [00:04:05] Speaker A: Okay. Go for it. [00:04:06] Speaker C: So I have two, because you really can't split these. My wife. Both of them homemade by my wife. My wife makes the meanest meatloaf you've ever had in your life. [00:04:15] Speaker B: Oh, yum. [00:04:16] Speaker C: It is absolutely to die for. And then the next day, you have that as a meatloaf sandwich. Oh, mercy. That is. [00:04:22] Speaker B: Do you use bread heaven for the sandwich? [00:04:25] Speaker C: For the sandwich, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now I have to make you one, and then the other piece is also homemade from scratch from my wife. And that is a chicken pot pie. [00:04:34] Speaker B: Oh, that sounds heavenly. [00:04:35] Speaker C: The crust, everything made from scratch. She is. [00:04:39] Speaker B: Wow. [00:04:39] Speaker C: She's pretty incredible. [00:04:40] Speaker B: That sounds good. [00:04:41] Speaker C: Yeah, it's really good. And so that fall food, you know, it gets cold outside, and that first frost hits, and you're just. You want something hearty and warm. Oh, mercy. That's so good. [00:04:51] Speaker B: That sounds so good. [00:04:52] Speaker A: In the foodie world, we can often refer to that as comfort food. [00:04:56] Speaker C: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Big time comfort. [00:04:57] Speaker B: Oh, that's so comforting. Just that really gravy bite. [00:05:02] Speaker A: So good. [00:05:03] Speaker B: Mine is really basic. I love. Sorry. I love the orange filled oreos. [00:05:11] Speaker A: Really? [00:05:14] Speaker B: I love them. [00:05:15] Speaker C: You might be my favorite person. [00:05:16] Speaker B: This is my favorite. I mean, it's that or it's like the pumpkin reeses. [00:05:19] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:05:20] Speaker B: That's about it. I mean, like, there's just nothing better than just walking through target and you snatch one of those, throw it in the cart, and then get in the car and mow away. Eat it away. [00:05:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:05:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:32] Speaker A: Okay, so a couple things. [00:05:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:35] Speaker A: Love. Love your heart in that. [00:05:36] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:05:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:05:38] Speaker A: The very fact that you mentioned target makes us mournful because we don't have that in Canada, as you well know. [00:05:44] Speaker B: Right. Yeah, I do know that. [00:05:45] Speaker A: So we can't buy that. The things that you just talked about. Having said that, I'm here in Grand Rapids. I'm going to take some home. [00:05:53] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, you can. You can. Yeah. [00:05:55] Speaker C: Stock up. [00:05:55] Speaker B: Walk that over the border. [00:05:56] Speaker A: Oh, good. So good. Okay, here's mine. [00:05:58] Speaker B: Yeah. What is yours? [00:06:00] Speaker A: So, anna, you know me a little bit and my fetish with pie. Yeah, pumpkin pie. Oh, man. Right? [00:06:08] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:06:08] Speaker A: You have to dive face first into. [00:06:10] Speaker C: The middle of just whipped cream or no whipped cream. [00:06:13] Speaker A: Oh, whipped cream. [00:06:13] Speaker B: Always. Homemade? [00:06:15] Speaker C: Yes, homemade. [00:06:16] Speaker B: None of that cool whipped business. Get out of here. [00:06:18] Speaker A: No, no, no. It's gotta be. Give me the good stuff. Okay. Very, very cool. Thank you for sharing those delicious. [00:06:27] Speaker B: Wait, I just need to say one thing about the pumpkin pie. [00:06:30] Speaker A: Okay. [00:06:31] Speaker B: I recently was talking to someone and they had a pumpkin pecan pie. It was a mix between a pecan pie and a pumpkin. [00:06:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:06:39] Speaker B: I've never had it, but personally, I think it sounds better than anything. [00:06:44] Speaker A: Just even thinking about that makes me hungry. [00:06:46] Speaker B: It sounds so good. [00:06:47] Speaker C: Yeah. I want to be judgmental about that because I want to be a purist for both of those parts. [00:06:52] Speaker B: No, but yet it's a marriage that needed to happen. [00:06:56] Speaker A: Do you guys have butter tarts here in America? [00:06:58] Speaker B: No, those are delicious. [00:07:00] Speaker C: I don't even know what you're talking about. [00:07:01] Speaker A: Okay, Jeff, come to Canada. We will. Butter tarts. [00:07:06] Speaker B: But they're sponsored by. [00:07:10] Speaker A: But pecan. Right? Same thing. They've. They've substituted. [00:07:14] Speaker C: Oh, right. [00:07:15] Speaker B: They've done a nice crossover. [00:07:16] Speaker A: Put in the pecans. [00:07:18] Speaker C: It's. [00:07:18] Speaker A: Love it. It's so good. Not super healthy. [00:07:22] Speaker C: I mean. [00:07:22] Speaker B: No. Yeah. [00:07:24] Speaker C: We're talking comfort food. We're not talking workout. [00:07:26] Speaker B: You said fall food. It's pretty much a consensus that you gain 15 pounds, and then by January, you're regretting it and hoping that maybe. [00:07:34] Speaker C: And then you don't eat until February. [00:07:36] Speaker B: Yeah, there's no consequence. [00:07:37] Speaker C: Totally, totally. [00:07:38] Speaker A: Anything to do with stew, chicken pot pie. Candies. [00:07:42] Speaker B: Candies. [00:07:43] Speaker A: I mean, you can't go wrong. [00:07:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:07:45] Speaker A: So good. Thanks for sharing that, guys. Hey, listen, if you are listening to this podcast for the first time or the second time or you've heard everyone in the season or in the series, we just really appreciate you, and we just want to remind you why we're here. Our main focus is always to try to connect life ministry, the theorizer, and the practitioner into an intergenerational conversation. And our hope is that some of our conversations, like the one today, is going to help you in your ministry world, maybe even in your family world or in your church context, to dive a little bit deeper into why this ministry, intergenerational ministry, is so important in our contexts. And with that, I kind of want to jump into the topic today. The reason why we invited Jeff here is because he loves intergenerational ministry, and he's a good friend of ours, but I want to introduce it this way. So one of the things that I've been thinking a lot about recently, Anna and Jeff, is this idea of relationships with young adults. And as you know, because you can see me, I'm no longer a young adult. Okay. I'm a little past that age. You're smiling, Jeff. I can see that. [00:08:58] Speaker B: He's old. Too old. [00:09:00] Speaker A: That's okay. [00:09:02] Speaker B: 33 years, right? [00:09:03] Speaker A: You're so young yet. [00:09:05] Speaker B: I'm 33, but actually, yeah. Jeff's been serving for 33 years. When I was trying. [00:09:11] Speaker A: That's what you were going after. [00:09:12] Speaker C: You really 33? [00:09:13] Speaker B: I certainly am. [00:09:16] Speaker A: Anyways, relationships with young adults are complex. I think a lot of our churches struggle with how do we minister alongside? And a lot of them will say, how do we minister to? Which I think is the wrong statement. Right. We've talked about that often. But one of the things I'm starting to realize, because Jeff and I both don't wear skinny jeans. And we're not the cool youth pastor on campus anymore. [00:09:41] Speaker C: Nope. [00:09:41] Speaker A: Right. We're the seasoned veterans in some respects. And so about two weeks ago, I helped launch a young adult event for a purpose of gathering young adults together. And it was in that space that we had put out an advertisement. So when we put this advertisement out to the churches, what was interesting is that there was generally a group that say, yes, I'll come. Okay, that was fascinating, period. Because we had a relationship. Okay, we had a relationship. They know who we are and they say, yes, we'll come. Right. That's typically what happens in ministry context. Well, it was interesting because one day I get a text from I don't know who, and they said, listen, I hear you're doing an event. Can I come? Yeah. So, one, I'm deeply encouraged by that, that somebody wants to come. Secondly, I don't know who this person is. So I asked the question through texting. I said, yeah, of course you can come, but I have no idea who you are. Can you tell me who you are, how you heard about this? He replies back and says, listen, I just heard about this through a family member. I moved from another province, or in the us context would be another state. I'm looking for some christian community. Can I come? And of course the response is yes, 100% yes. So we get to the event and we start talking to these young adults and spend some time just having fellowship together. But then I asked the group the question, why is this space important? Why is it important to you to be together in this context? And they had all kinds of really, really good reasons, but I'm starting to think that when we create spaces of opportunities for gathering when we have young people, and if we think about young adult age, up to 30 ish, and you can argue the point that maybe goes beyond that, but I'm wondering if they start coming to these things because we simply showed up. I'm getting the sense that the more we show up, the more they start to begin to trust and the more they begin to feel like, yeah, I have a place here. There was a sense of belonging that they named, even though this person didn't even know us. And so these conversations started to build and we started to hear things like, well, this is safe. Yeah, right. I see you. I've heard about you. You are safe. [00:12:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:12:27] Speaker A: And so I ask you guys, is part of the issue. Not issue, but the challenge for churches when we think about ministering with young adults, that we're having a hard time just showing up ourselves. I'd love your thoughts on that, because I do believe that part of our ministry context, and we do this in youth ministry all the time. Ajef, if we show up, it doesn't matter if we know anything. [00:12:55] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:12:56] Speaker A: They're just, well, they're just glad that we're there with them. [00:13:00] Speaker C: Yeah, right. Ron, I think you're right on. I think the showing up is the biggest piece, really, of student ministries. When you are in somebody's life and you are there with them, showing them that you see them, you're there for whatever it is they're going to go through, your age really does not matter at that point. The things I've seen, my career has been long in this. And I joke when I interview new potential leaders to come on board in my ministry, I joke with them that I'm a grandpa in this industry, right? I mean, some of my leaders, I'm way old enough to be their father. In fact, my son is now being, he's becoming a youth pastor here, too. And he's older than quite a few of my leaders currently. So in this industry, you would think like, oh, no, student ministries youth group, that's a young person's world. That's not for an old person like me. Right. And that's just not the case when you show a student. In fact, I'll just, I'll use this. Wednesday night, I was at our middle school ministry, hadn't even started yet, and I got pulled out of the pre leaders meeting because somebody said, hey, there's a high school student here and he needs to meet you. Somebody gave him the wrong night and he just showed up. So I run out to meet this kid, and he is, he looks the part like, he's great, right? Super cool looking kid. And I'm like, I'm not gonna blow this, but I'm not a cool guy. And so I walk up to him, never seen this kid before in my life, and I'm clearly way old compared to him. And so we just start talking. And in that first two sentences, it's really, it's two questions. And it's from me to him of who he is and showing just that ounce of care of him, instead of, here's who we are. Give him, inundate him with all the ideas of what we do and all the information. It's to start with a question of him that just put him in a place of comfort. He actually hugged me before he left and said, oh, man, I'm coming on Sunday night. You're on Sunday nights, I'm coming on Sunday night. So the age bracket does nothing. It really doesn't matter. But to people who are thinking about ministering, oh, no, I can't do that because I'm way too old. Well, you're never, you're never too old for this. No. [00:15:28] Speaker B: I think there's something too, about what you started to say with you don't look the part. You're not cool. Like, for a person to show up and be willing to engage someone who's younger, you have to have a certain level of comfort with who you are. And that seems to be missing a lot of times. What we hear from our volunteers is that they don't feel like they have the pedigree, they don't feel like they have the training to be able to show up in a spiritual relationship with a young person, and that's just not true. Do you know how to be in relationship with people? You know, and some people really do feel awkward with that. And I have a lot of empathy there. And when we're talking about being in relationship with young people, it's not assigning young people to youth ministry, but intergenerational ministry is really being able to recognize that young person is a part of our faith community just as much as I am a part of this faith community. There's not a barrier. And so I feel like that's really important too, is being able to recognize, even for the young person or whoever pulled you out of that meeting, it wasn't just your job to talk to that young person. It was also their job to welcome them, show them hospitality and extend. Hey, grab, here's a glass of water, here's a piece of pizza. So glad you're here. [00:17:00] Speaker A: I do also wonder, and your story is beautiful because I think it reflects what we always talk about in generation Spark, to bring the generations together and to learn together, that it isn't a hierarchical space, but a mutual learning space. I do wonder still that some of our congregational members in our churches, that fear of being maybe challenged by a conversation and say, I don't know how to talk to the young people this way. Right. I don't think they're necessarily looking for us to have all the answers. [00:17:42] Speaker C: Well, that's the big one. One of the biggest no's that I get from people. When they say like, no, I just don't think I'm ready. Usually they'll say something either about age, their cool factor. I'm not hip like that. Right? What do you say? But then they'll usually say, something along the lines of, well, I just. My theology, my faith. I don't feel like I'm strong enough to Jesus in order to do this. And, boy, I'm not strong enough in my faith. I don't know anybody who is strong enough to do this ministry. Man, oh, man. What I do know is that Jesus saved me, and I can tell you about that. I can tell you how he saved me and I found freedom in him. And I know you need that. So we have a common ground, then, and that's really all you need to know. The other questions that come up and, boy, I've had some just incredible, deep questions that I can't answer that have come from 6th graders, which is amazing, but we'll try to find that answer together. [00:18:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:51] Speaker C: But for right now, what I know that you need is the gospel of Jesus Christ. And if you're a believer in Jesus, when I talk about student ministries versus that youth group model, it really talks about that we teach and train our students that as a believer in Jesus, you're now a minister of the gospel. You're a minister of the good news. So what has Jesus just done in you? That's what you go share. And that's what I tell my leaders as well. Then, like, you're not going to know all the answers, but you do know what Jesus is doing in you. So let's start there. [00:19:23] Speaker A: Yeah, it's fascinating you say that, because that's the argument I'll get, too, from volunteers. And they say I don't have a compelling story. My story isn't that big revelation moment. It's a gradual time throughout my life that I've come to know Jesus Christ as my lord and savior. And I said, that's a great story. Right. [00:19:45] Speaker C: And there's nothing wrong with that. [00:19:48] Speaker B: What do you think's behind that? I mean, like, I feel like I grew up with a grandmother who, like, she would tell us all these stories about, you know, her faith that she. She used to say, when I die, I'm gonna walk up to Jesus and say, I love Jesus because he first loved me, and I hope that's good enough to get in. You know, that's what she used to say. And we're like, Graham, we think that's probably good enough. [00:20:10] Speaker A: That's probably fine. [00:20:11] Speaker B: It's probably fine. [00:20:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:12] Speaker B: But you know what I mean? Like, what do you think that is, you guys? [00:20:16] Speaker A: My reaction or thought about that is I think there's just a fear. There's a fear of vulnerability. [00:20:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:24] Speaker A: Right. So when I think about my parents or maybe that, that generation. [00:20:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Were they first generation to Canada? [00:20:33] Speaker A: Yeah, they were. [00:20:34] Speaker B: Okay. [00:20:34] Speaker A: Yeah. So they came in the fifties, but their story was a lived experience story, right. They planted the churches. They planted the christian schools. Right. They did this new pathway charting work right within Canada and the US. In my particular case, it was Canada. But the assumption is, you see, through my lived experience, my faithfulness to our creator by doing. And I'm wondering then, Anna, if that's part of the struggle. There hasn't been an ability to articulate the story of God's faithfulness because I've lived it out and I don't know how to tell it. But you can see it. [00:21:22] Speaker B: Totally. [00:21:22] Speaker A: You can see it. And I think we're a generation now, and for me anyways, and I see it with our kids too. I think some of us have a hard time telling the story. Some of us are practitioners. That's part of our work. We're trained to do that to some degree or we've learned it, whatever the reason is. But there's this element of, oh, you're a great storyteller. I do believe that young people, and even us older people, and I'm going to categorize myself in the plus 45 age group. [00:21:58] Speaker C: Totally plus 50. [00:22:03] Speaker A: But here's what's interesting. You don't have to be a great storyteller, but an authentic one, that it's real, that there's something coming through on that. And I think that's the key. I think that sense of authentic community, what you're telling me is real. I can see it in your eyes, I can hear it in your voice, I can see it in your posture. And I think that's part of the showing up. [00:22:26] Speaker C: Yep. [00:22:26] Speaker B: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense to me. [00:22:28] Speaker C: Yeah. You know, when you ask, you know, what is that? What, what is it that blocks that? Honestly, I mean, the very first thing that comes to my mind, and I love to just prove that all out, is it is straight from the devil. Any time that there's a block in your mind about sharing what Jesus has done in you, about opening your mouth to speak about Jesus Christ, that is straight from the devil. God is not saying like, ooh, Anna, don't talk right now. Don't share about Jesus. That's really never going to be his posture, right? It's never going to be what he does. So whenever I am in any kind of fear, in any kind of like, oh, I don't think I can do this, that is that moment. That is straight from the whispers of the enemy. And I mean, our job is to battle that and go after it. But if I am having a hard time articulating what Jesus has done in my life. And Ron, you talked about the grand conversion story. I have a pretty dramatic conversion story, but my son doesn't. In the world's eyes, my conversion story should never have happened. It is a miracle of miracles that I am a believer in this jesus and that I'm pastoring, that I'm sharing this with other people. My son, who is next weekend getting installed as the youth pastor at a church in Ohio, which is awesome. It's awesome. Oh, my heart. [00:24:01] Speaker B: Family trade. Yeah. [00:24:02] Speaker C: Yep. So exciting. My son prayed with him when he was four years old to accept Christ. Raised in a, what I would consider a pretty godly family. A family that's trying with everything we had to do this with authenticity, with actual life. Yeah, he doesn't have that same story. But now if you talk to him today, he'd say, well, yeah, I did that. But then it was really when I was twelve or 13 or 14, that area, that's when I really accepted Christ. But again, it was more of that, nope, now this is mine. So whether you have that grand story or not, I've actually had people, former leaders, that have said, man, I just wish I had a story like yours, Jeff. And I say, no. [00:24:52] Speaker B: Right? [00:24:53] Speaker C: You don't. I was rescued out of hell. And I say, you who received Jesus when you were three or four, or whatever that was, you were rescued from hell. The Lord. The Lord gave you a home that you didn't have that in. And there's blessings in all of that. That story is beautiful and just as relevant, 100% just as relevant as the grand version story. [00:25:19] Speaker B: Right. It doesn't mean that you're not facing struggles. [00:25:21] Speaker C: Oh, my word. Yeah, yeah. [00:25:23] Speaker A: I'm so glad you shared that because I think it's really important for our listeners to hear that. [00:25:27] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:25:28] Speaker A: And it points me to a resource. So have you guys read the book? You lost me? [00:25:34] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:25:36] Speaker A: And so one of the things he talks about in the life of teens and young adults is this idea that every young person is unique. Right. We think about the fingerprint of the individuals of who we are, you know, with these impressions on ourselves as beings created in the image of God. We all have our own unique identity. And what he talks about in this book is this idea that they have their own stories, and in those stories, they're not the same as the other. And it should be celebrated. The fact that they are their own stories and God's working in that story. And quite often, and I think this is the hope that I want to include for the listeners as we think about this, is their stories are not done yet. God continues to work in them. And so that's a praise the Lord moments. Right? [00:26:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:31] Speaker A: Especially for those, those, you know, people within our areas of influence, when they started hearing, I'm concerned about my son, I'm concerned about my daughter. [00:26:42] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:42] Speaker A: God's still working. [00:26:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:44] Speaker A: And their story's not done yet. [00:26:46] Speaker C: That's not, yeah. [00:26:47] Speaker A: You know what? And that's a good thing. [00:26:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:49] Speaker C: If they're breathing, their story is, they're still going. [00:26:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I think there's something, too, that I just want to just name it so that it's really concrete, the idea of story. We're spending so much time in it because it is the foundation of intergenerational ministry. If we don't have an attention to story, recognizing that the person that sits before you, whether they're twelve or 82, they have a story. And oftentimes what's happening for young people is that their story is not considered of equality as the 82 year old story because their experience is shorter. Better or worse, it's shorter. And so I think as a foundational piece, it means that we are showing one another through a posture of curiosity, a willingness to ask, tell me about yourself. Tell me your story as kind of the starting place of forming these intergenerational relationships. It's not the primary. Right. It doesn't necessarily facilitate that relationship with Jesus wholly, but it does point to the holy moments of where God has been at work, which as the people, people of God, I'm preaching now, whereas the people of God, that is the way in which God invites us in, is by sharing the story. Here is what God's people have done from the beginning of time. That's what remodeled, and that's what we just continue. [00:28:12] Speaker A: Exactly. And that's the heart of the gospel. [00:28:14] Speaker B: Right. [00:28:14] Speaker A: That's the heart of the gospel. And when we ignore that. [00:28:18] Speaker B: Right. [00:28:19] Speaker A: Then we do a disservice to those people around us. I want to wrap up, but Jeff, Anna, any resources, any things that you've read or heard lately that you could say, you know what, thinking about this kind of stuff, here's something that I want to point you towards. This might be good, helpful information for you as you start thinking about this kind of contextual ministry of showing up. [00:28:43] Speaker C: Yeah. You know, I'm led to this and I don't know that this is exactly where you wanted to go, Ron, but one of the things that I do regularly in my ministry is we do a time we call say it. It is an open testimony time. And this has taken, it took a while to get this culture built, but every single week with middle school and with high school, we do this open time we call say it. And it's a time that you have. And I literally ask from stage, like, where have you seen God move in the last seven days of your world? You individually. And you can tell me it was, well, in my mom or dad or teacher, I saw something happening, or I saw this happen to me or in me, something along those lines. We are at a spot right now where there are nights that I literally have to cut off the testimonies. We can't take any more testimonies. Cause we have to keep moving. [00:29:38] Speaker A: Wow. [00:29:39] Speaker C: Which is a terrible thing to say. [00:29:40] Speaker B: I know, but we got things to do. [00:29:42] Speaker C: So gross. [00:29:43] Speaker B: So gross. [00:29:46] Speaker C: But it's at a space right now where our students are. They know. In fact, we just launched our high school program last week. Sunday and Sunday morning at church. I had so many students come up to me and ask me specifically, are we going to do say it tonight? Because I've got some. Like from all summer, I've got some. And so when we do that, when we recognize and then out loud recognize, and so what we'll do in our practice, you say it out loud in front of everyone else, and then you go over to a huge banner that we have on the wall in our room, and you actually sharpie that on the banner because then throughout the year, you get to come back to that and remind yourself of where you saw God moving, where other people saw. Because in those moments when we don't see God moving or when our eyes or our heart is kind of closed off to that, then we get to see that. I say all of that because in the intergenerational piece, when I'm stuck in that spot where I don't think God's going to move through me, it's because my heart has become numb to what he's doing in me right now. [00:30:45] Speaker B: Now. [00:30:45] Speaker C: And so my world is to preach the gospel to myself daily. And so for that, the resource that I would recommend about, like reminding myself daily of what God is doing, there's the tiniest little book that I got. My son gave this to me for my birthday a few years back. And it's called a gospel primer for christians. A guy named Milton Vincent Milton. Yeah. You'd think this was like the 15 hundreds. [00:31:15] Speaker B: Totally. [00:31:15] Speaker C: Nope. This was like 20 years ago. He wrote this, and it is devotional style, and it's deep. [00:31:22] Speaker B: I love that. [00:31:23] Speaker C: It's real helpful for remembering the gospel daily and preaching it to yourself. [00:31:29] Speaker A: Can you say the title again? [00:31:30] Speaker C: A gospel primer for christians. [00:31:33] Speaker A: Love that. [00:31:34] Speaker B: That's good. Yeah. I think for congregations looking to start the storytelling thing, Ron's denomination, the Christian Reformed Church in North America, actually has this really incredible storytelling toolkit. And it's really awesome to just pull out and start thinking about, how can we. If you're a leader who's listening, it's. You have to start asking the question, how can we start massaging this storytelling culture into our community so that it becomes baked into who we are? That's really how you start this intergenerational work. You don't even have to talk about it as, like, you're gonna start talking to a young person. And then the second thing that I would say is, if you're someone who wants to be a good storyteller, like, you're just really passionate about it. Stand up comedy. [00:32:17] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:32:18] Speaker B: Specifically, Hasan Minaj. If you have not listened to Hassan Minaj, he's fairly clean as far as comedy goes. He's an amazing storyteller, and he does it in such a way that he always brings you back to a really serious note. And so it becomes this sense of, like, as a Christian, you can tell your story in a way that's captivating, that's not inauthentic. It just catches the high points. And it doesn't have to talk about what color socks you wore and, you know, all the other things. [00:32:49] Speaker A: So do you want to know that? Sometimes? [00:32:51] Speaker B: Sometimes, yeah. I mean, socks are becoming a really big thing now. [00:32:54] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:32:55] Speaker B: The youths, gen alpha, they're whipping out this cool socks. [00:33:00] Speaker C: They are. Wow. [00:33:02] Speaker B: Ron, what about you? Is there a resource you've got? [00:33:04] Speaker A: So one of the books that I recommend to people, when we think about the artist, storytelling is really just focused on the title of the book is called the God Hungry Imagination, written by Sara Arthur. And in it, she talks about the necessity of storytelling because there's something within the world of our young people that. That they're hungering for the gospel. They just don't know it yet. And so Sarah talks about that and at length kind of highlights some of the here's what you can do, but more about. Here's the why. Here's the why. So it's a great book. It's a great resource. Yeah. Jeff, thank you. [00:33:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you, Jeff. It's good to be with you. [00:33:50] Speaker C: What a blessing for my soul. [00:33:51] Speaker A: And if you're up to another, you want to join us again sometime, any day. All right. Yes. [00:33:57] Speaker C: You say and I'm in. [00:33:58] Speaker B: Woohoo. [00:33:59] Speaker A: Anna, thanks. [00:34:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you. [00:34:02] Speaker A: And for your listeners, we just really appreciate you. We hope this is a blessing to you. And until next time, and if you. [00:34:09] Speaker B: Don'T subscribe, subscribe, subscribe. [00:34:11] Speaker A: Bye.