[00:00:02] Speaker A: Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Spark Dialogue podcast. My name is John Simon, and I'm here with two wonderful members of my team. We have ron devries.
[00:00:11] Speaker B: Hey, John.
[00:00:12] Speaker A: And we have Annika Bangma.
[00:00:14] Speaker C: Hey, guys. So glad to be here.
[00:00:17] Speaker A: Yeah. And we're here. We've got kind of an unorthodox episode. I wouldn't call it unorthodox. It's just a little more practical, a little more. We want to give you guys a good picture of what our program looks like. So this might be not as a conceptual, not as theoretical as are some of our other episodes, but we just want you guys to know what generation Spark is and what we're about and all that stuff. So that should be a lot of fun.
[00:00:42] Speaker B: Jon, this feels like a little bit of a filler, right. It's kind of filling in the gaps between our regular episodes, offering some new insights about who we are and what we do.
[00:00:51] Speaker A: I think you're. You're 100% spot on, Rob. I think you nailed it. Just to, uh, to get a little bit of spice in here, I think we should do a really quick kind of icebreaker. I just thought of this as we were kind of prepping our meeting earlier. If you were a number between one and ten, like, that just kind of fits your essence in some way. What do you guys think it does? It could have, like, some biblical numerological significance, or it could just be. I, like, six. Who knows? So, I don't know. What do you guys think?
[00:01:19] Speaker B: I'm feeling very. I'm feeling very foreish right now. The number four kind of sticks out to me, probably because one of my favorite hockey players was Bobby orr. Um, just saying that doesn't mean anything. I just. Growing up, uh, he was number four, and, uh, that's a number that kind of stood out to me.
[00:01:38] Speaker A: It's good. Yeah. Well rounded number.
[00:01:41] Speaker B: I think so. I think so.
[00:01:42] Speaker C: Yeah. My favorite number has always been eight, and it was like my volleyball number, and then when we bought our house, we are number eight. Yeah. So just kind of came together.
[00:01:53] Speaker A: For us, eight's just a sideways infinity sign, you know? So there's a lot of.
[00:01:58] Speaker B: Really is. What about you, Jeff?
[00:02:00] Speaker A: Me? Ah, man, I've. I've always been kind of attracted to seven. I think it's probably because of the, you know, the biblical perfection and all that. But when I think of, like, all the usernames I've had when I was, like, a teenager, they always ended with seven. So, yeah, that's. That's me. I'm a seven guy perfectionist.
[00:02:20] Speaker B: John, so much. So much. That's a great question, John. Love that.
[00:02:25] Speaker A: Thank you, guys.
But, hey, I think we'll kind of start up a little bit and, you know, we're going to keep dialogue in here. We're just going to be chatting, but we wanted to, like we said, kind of fill in the gaps and explain a little bit about what generation spark is. So if you're listening to this episode or even to this podcast in general, you are very likely a church goer who's probably recognized a lot of the trends and a lot of the themes that we see today, which are that there is this kind of generational divide that's happening more and more in the church. We see churches that are growing older, median ages in churches that are kind of leaning towards the higher number side. And then we're seeing people from, you know, young adults, high school, college age, just kind of leaving their churches. Or when they do stay in their churches, they're feeling this kind of sense of detachment. And so generation spark as a program is essentially kind of stepping in that direction of addressing that issue. And just so that you guys know, just to, you know, cards on the table, we don't make a commission on participating churches. In fact, this whole program is 100% free. So don't think, oh, well, here's the ad episode. They're just trying to, you know, send another missionary to Uruguay. Like, no, I promise we don't make a nickel off of this. We're just. We're just trying to. Trying to help out.
[00:03:50] Speaker C: We love, this is what we're called to. Right.
[00:03:53] Speaker B: We love this ministry.
[00:03:54] Speaker A: Big, big passion for all of us, which is one of the reasons I love our team so much. Nobody's phoning it in over here, but, yeah, and, you know, generation spark, what I love about it is that we are really doing our homework and applying research from very credible organizations. So you'll often see studies from things like Barna or the Fuller Youth Institute, Gallup, Pew Research. Like, it's really about understanding these types of trends that we're seeing in how the cultural kind of the culture is shifting and then recognizing how to respond to it. So at heart of generation spark, we are definitely practitioners.
[00:04:37] Speaker B: I love that piece, John, because I think that's really helpful for the churches to know that at the heart, we try to live this out in the work that we do, but that the research is really, really based in good, good content. And that's such an important piece, John. I'd love it if you could give us a little bit of history as to where did generation spark come from?
[00:04:59] Speaker A: Yeah, no, of course. It's a great question. So generation Spark started under the umbrella of the Reformed Church of America back in 2017 in Holland, Michigan. And just as we were kind of mentioning, the goal of generation Spark has always been the same, which is to help churches foster this environment that encourages intergenerational discipleship, really encourages relationships, and trying to create these places of welcoming across generations and churches. And so generation spark, for a very long time, operated on a pretty small scale, which I think gave it an opportunity to kind of figure out what its identity was and just how to practically work with these churches. And then in 2021, the RCA received a very generous grant that allowed for the program to expand significantly. And now it's working kind of arm in arm with its sister denomination, the CRC. But what I love is that its goal is not to necessarily stay within these denominational zones, but to really break out. And I think that generation spark would love to be a benefit to churches of all different denominations and backgrounds throughout North America. So that's kind of where we're at today.
[00:06:16] Speaker B: Ronnie, that's really cool. It kind of makes me feel like we're not trying to be insular, but trying to address a kingdom ministry need, which is what we hear. Right. This is what we hear kind of in the world today.
[00:06:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's totally. That's. That's spot on. Yeah.
[00:06:31] Speaker C: And it's exciting because not only is it the goal to be beyond just the RCA, the CRC, but that's what we're already doing. Right? Already, generation spark walks with churches regardless of denomination, of the age of the church, the size, the demographics. And so that's a really fun thing that we get to do beyond just denominational bounds, which so many times people try and put things in buckets, and this is something that God has called us to beyond just any given bucket.
[00:07:04] Speaker A: Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Because, I mean, this. I think this would be.
It would speak to a smaller issue if we were just trying to stay in the RCA and the CRC. But like we said, we. This is a. This is a wide reaching issue that we want to address. So, yeah, we're trying to help out wherever the problem is, not just in our backyard.
[00:07:25] Speaker C: So let me tell you a little bit more about the program in general. Those who are part of Generation Spark, it's a year long process in which a church's leadership team is led through a time of assessment for readiness and to really understand the current church culture what's the reality? And then learn how to build a generation spark within their church. And the beauty of Generation Spark is that it incorporates two of the groups in your church that are most often overlooked. You have the young adults that really nobody knows what to do with and the older maniverse, the members who have contributed in really meaningful ways. But now they're getting older, and they're starting to wonder, what's my place?
Where does my story matter? And when we bring those two groups together, the beauty that comes of allowing for mentoring ministries between them is just astounding.
[00:08:21] Speaker A: See, I love that you mentioned that, Annika, because I, you know, not to disrespect any of the angsty youth who might be listening, but like we often do, talk about the loneliness that young people feel in the church, which is super valid. But also, I think that just as justified is the feeling of my better days are behind me. I have very little to offer my community now, being able to say, hey, we're not just trying to bring the young people and keep them into church. We're also trying to affirm the gifts and the relational blessings that older christians have to give, too. Right.
[00:08:59] Speaker C: And then we get to put them on mission together.
This work together, because the model we use, the sparks model, it kind of removes that awkwardness that often kind of accompanies pairing different generations, because we're structuring their time together around a problem solving model. We're asking them to work together on a mission, solve a problem, and do it in a very intentional way. And so then.
[00:09:26] Speaker B: Sorry, Annika, as you say that, I think that's such a brilliant way to spark relationships together. Right. Often we hear of people wondering, how do we create this opportunity for them to gather together and be together, to give them a common purpose, to give them something that gives them a solid foundation to work from. It's just such a helpful model to use in ministry like this.
[00:09:54] Speaker C: Absolutely. Yeah. And so, as a generation spark team for the churches that are going through one of our cohorts or part of the generation spark process, we help prompt conversations around shifting the culture of the church to one that's really intentional around intergenerational relationships. In the meantime, we're equipping them with tools to help mentors and mentees build those relationships. Those tools can be really practical things like safe church boundaries and how to structure meeting times, but also more than nuanced. Right. How do we do really good listening?
How do we incorporate some psychoeducational learning into this so that those times aren't just structured, but they're really meaningful.
[00:10:42] Speaker B: Sounds like what we're talking about moves from a place of just practical. Here's a structure that we're gonna follow, but hopefully shifts congregations into a place of shifting the DNA, that this is part of who we are. This is an identity marker for us as a congregation, that we value one another, that we spend time with one another, and that we want to work together in a space like this that blesses not just the local church, but the kingdom as we think about intergenerational ministries. So this becomes a DNA shift, I think.
[00:11:17] Speaker C: Absolutely. It has to be a DNA shift.
[00:11:21] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, totally. I agree with that. And this is what we're seeing in congregations right now. They're seeing that their culture is shifting, that their culture is changing as they start to live into this space, which is really cool.
[00:11:34] Speaker A: So during, everything is very custom tailored, too. Like, it's not a one size fits all thing. Like it is. It does seem like a very wide reaching program, which I think is really cool, too.
[00:11:45] Speaker C: It is. It absolutely is. And so during that year long process, yes, there are some structured things, right? There are a series of webinars, there's an online learning platform, but it's all contextualized. And one of the things that we love that we get to offer is actually some one on one coaching with a really experienced, amazing, compassionate church coach who's going to help your church encounter challenges well and customize it to that unique context so that by the end of the year, your church is ready to launch a generation spark ministry that has been fully customized and can forever shift that culture of your church, that DNA, to one of thriving intergenerational relationships. And again, we get to do it for free through the generous gift of a Lilly foundation grant, which is just so amazing and mind boggling to me still.
[00:12:36] Speaker B: That's so awesome. I know. We're so grateful for them for that. So as you're listening, you may be wondering what's the first step that you may need to take to see if this ministry opportunity is right for you or maybe right for your congregation? Well, it begins with reaching out to our team. You can reach out to our
[email protected]. dot. And I'll say it again, generationsparka.org. and what you do is set up a call with some of our team. And on this call, you get an opportunity to spend some time. We get some time to listen to you, to get to know you, to get to know your congregation. And one of the ways in which we do that is, we ask very specific questions about who you are. A couple of questions might be connected to the demographics of your congregation. One of the things we think is really, really important is trying to understand, who are you as a congregation? How many young people do you have? What does your leadership structure look like? What does your discipleship culture look like? These are all important questions that we can ask to try to figure out contextually. Then, how does this ministry opportunity fit for you? Our hope, really, at the end of the call is that we'll have a better understanding of you and your congregation. But we also think it's really important to make time on the call so that you can ask us questions. One of the things, John and Annika, that we find really, really interesting, when Ruth and I have been doing some of these interviews, is they've got really good questions. They say, what does the year long process look like?
How does this work in my context? When are we done or are we ever done? And what are some of the really cool things that might be something that we can take back to our council to share more information. So it's a reciprocal conversation where we get to understand you a little bit more and that you get to understand us a little bit more once we go through this process. And this is what's beautiful about the process, is that we've heard you, you've heard us, and then once we kind of see whether or not there might be a fit, we'll say, here's an application. We invite you to apply. And once you go through that application process, you're enrolled. And then we start to see. Okay, let's start practically start thinking about.
Here's our first call. Here's what the first year is going to look like together, et cetera, et cetera. And one of the things I really want to make clear to you, and I don't know if you've heard this on the call already, did we mention that this is free?
Wow, that's just amazing. The other thing I need you to know is that we are a very relational group, as you've seen or heard with Anika and John, and perhaps you've connected with other people. We'd love to have a conversation with you. We'd love for you to reach out again. Our email address is generationsparka.org dot. John, Annika, is there anything else that you think we need to share? What have we missed? What be something that churches should know about?
[00:15:45] Speaker A: Yeah, Ron, I just wanted to add, or maybe not even add maybe highlight something that you had said, which was that it's really about entering into kind of a dialogue between the coaches and the churches that we're working with, because I think what you said about these other churches asking questions like, I think if I'm listening to this from the outside, my question is, well, but has generation spark ever worked with a church that's like mine? Because we know that no two churches are the same. But what I love about our leaders team and what I love about our coaches is that they're just as eager to learn about the type of context that you have as they are to help. So they're not trying to kind of provide some, you know, one size fits all measure, but they. They want to learn about your background and what you're experiencing, so they can kind of enter into that with you and say, all right, how can we. How can we serve your people better? How can we serve the Lord better in this. In this space?
[00:16:46] Speaker B: That's really cool that you bring that up, because I think that's one of the key values of our generation spark team, and the process, that there's an adaptability to it that recognizes that contextualization is vital to the process. It's vital to that. What you just described, that. That shared learning. And we, as a team, we're learning all the time. I mean, this is part of our DNA, right? We recognize that there isn't a one size fits all that. Every congregation has its own identity marker, its own fingerprint of who they are. And we want to get to know who you are so that as we walk with you, as we journey with you, listen to your stories, as we pray with you, that we'll start to be able to understand where and what resources might be helpful in your context. How do we, as a coach, support you in the work that you're doing, as you are called, to live into this intergenerational space.
[00:17:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, that's great.
[00:17:48] Speaker C: And, you know, talking about that contextualization, I was laughing to myself just a moment ago as we once again emphasize that this is free. And financially, it absolutely is free. But it does require an investment. It requires some intentionality. It requires someone saying, yes, this is worth it.
You know what? We really do hope that a church that says yes is going to join us on a year long journey. But if you're in a place where you're saying, like, I don't know, that we have a year that we can commit to a project like this yet, or we're not sure that we're all in. I just want to mention that I think that as a team, we are still invested in making intergenerational relationships happen for churches, regardless of if they can make that investment or nothing. So if we can be of help, if we can take a phone call to help provide some resourcing, we are open to that. And we just love the church and we love to see this work flourish. Another thing I just thought of, there are so many churches who I've spoke to that say, man, I love this idea, but we don't have any youth.
We don't fit any demographics. I don't even know what to say on that first phone call as to how many youth we have.
And the beauty of this is that there are youth in our lives all around us. There might not be a youth in your church, but, man, I bet there's a grandparent around who has a grandchild, or there is a school down the street with kids who are begging for grandparents because their homes are broken or whatever that looks like. And so taking the time to figure out how to do these intergenerational relationships well, can then allow your church to go out and become mentors to people that will then actually bring the youth into your church. And all of a sudden, you find out you do have youth. They just weren't inside the walls of your building yet.
[00:19:50] Speaker B: I'm so glad you brought that up. That's such an important piece of the work that I think every congregation is called to do is recognizing that there are those young people around us, and you may not have them attending every Sunday, but, boy, can we pour into them regardless of where we find them. That's such an important piece of the work that we're called to do. Thank you for that. Thank you for that.
[00:20:14] Speaker A: Yeah. All right. Well, there we have it. Yeah, that's. That's about it. Thanks so much for listening, and we appreciate you guys, as always. Like I said, this is kind of an atypical episode for us. Probably next time you hear from us, we'll be getting a back into some, you know, ideas of relationality and youth and empathy and all the good things we like to talk about over here. Again, if you want to just ask any questions, connect about anything that we're doing, generationsparka.org is our. Is the best way to get in touch with us. Otherwise, thank you so much for your time, and we'll talk to you again real soon.
