Life Together

[00:00:02] Speaker A: Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Generation Spark podcast. My name is John Simon, and I'm here with my wonderful co host, Ron DeVries. [00:00:12] Speaker B: Hey, good to be with you, John. [00:00:14] Speaker A: Ron, it is an absolute pleasure. We've been excited about this for a while, haven't we? [00:00:19] Speaker C: We have. [00:00:19] Speaker B: We have. For the longest time, we've been thinking about how do we talk about mentoring and this thing called generation spark to a broader audience. And so to be able to do this in a podcast format is just beautiful. [00:00:32] Speaker A: It's great. [00:00:32] Speaker B: And working with you. [00:00:33] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:00:34] Speaker A: It's talking about beautiful. [00:00:35] Speaker B: Such a joy. [00:00:36] Speaker C: Such a joy. [00:00:37] Speaker B: And we're bringing canadian and us people together for something unified in a setting like this. [00:00:43] Speaker A: I love it. I love it. [00:00:44] Speaker C: Yeah, there's. [00:00:44] Speaker A: There's a million things to love, and it's just a great place to be. And it's a nice. It's a nice cloudy day in Tucson, Arizona. Reminds you of home, right? [00:00:52] Speaker B: A little bit. A little bit. [00:00:53] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [00:00:54] Speaker B: The rain kind of surprised me, but sure. [00:00:56] Speaker A: It surprised all of us. [00:00:57] Speaker B: We need rain. We do. [00:00:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:00:59] Speaker B: So good. [00:01:00] Speaker C: So good. [00:01:01] Speaker A: Well, I think we should get started, and I thought of a great idea to maybe kind of kick off our conversation here, which was maybe we should share our favorite movies from last year. [00:01:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:01:13] Speaker A: How does that sound? [00:01:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:01:14] Speaker B: Really like it. So I've been thinking a little bit about this. I was starting to look at the list of movies that I've gone to see this year in the theater or rented that were fairly new, and two jumped out to me. I'll begin with the first one, and maybe this christian podcast kind of thinking through. But I gotta say, the Jesus Revolution was a movie with Kelsey Grammer in it, who's been known for his work on Frasier and cheers, of course, on the television screen. But the role that he played as a pastor struggling with attendance in his church and then being able to connect with the younger demographic during the 1970s, based loosely on a true story, but still, the reality of this movie, there was a lot of good takeaways. [00:02:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:02:07] Speaker B: And there was a. I don't know if you watched the movie. [00:02:09] Speaker A: I did not. [00:02:10] Speaker B: So there was a scene where the elders of the church were concerned about these younger people showing up. And because they were showing up without shoes or sandals on in their bare feet, one of the elders literally says, what are we going to do about them walking in? Because the carpets are all getting dirty. Right. And this was new carpet. And of course, one of the very next scenes was this pastor, and of course, played by Kelsey Grammer. Washing their feet, coming into the church. And it was a beautiful, beautiful moment. I had tears in my eyes when I saw that because I thought to myself, okay, this is somebody who's looking beyond the practical and looking at what is the missional heart here. [00:02:51] Speaker C: Right. [00:02:51] Speaker B: It was just fantastic. If you haven't watched the movie, feel free to do that. But that was probably one of the movies that I've watched twice now. They're thinking, oh, yeah, there's a lot to take away here. [00:03:03] Speaker A: Sure, sure. [00:03:04] Speaker B: And I will jump in and say, there was one more movie that I watched that I thought, oh, yeah, everybody's watching this one. And this was Barbie. [00:03:13] Speaker C: Okay. [00:03:13] Speaker B: Yeah. And I'll be honest, I didn't get to see the end of it. People have been saying, you need to watch the end of it to get to. Yeah, well, yeah, I was getting tired and I never got a chance to watch the rest. [00:03:25] Speaker A: I understand. [00:03:26] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:03:26] Speaker B: So I'm taking encouragement to watch the rest of it. [00:03:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:03:30] Speaker B: And see what happens in the. In that movie. [00:03:33] Speaker A: I feel like a very, you know, poor church leader because I have seen Barbie. In fact, I saw it the night that it came out. [00:03:40] Speaker B: You did? [00:03:41] Speaker A: Not that I'm a huge Barbie fan. I just happened to be around Barbie enthusiasts at the time. But I haven't seen Jesus revolution. Okay. Man. I feel like the opposite should be true. But you know what? You know, it is what it is. [00:03:53] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, sure. [00:03:54] Speaker A: Can I share my favorite movie from this year? Yeah, so, okay. I. Man, there were so many good movies that dropped last year and so many good directors who made something. But the one that really, I think, hit me the hardest was the new Godzilla movie. Did you see it? No, it was fantastic. It was so good. And, you know, I was thinking about, like, how can I make a tie into what we're talking about today? And I think I have it because here's the thing with Godzilla. You think, oh, it's big monster movie. It's knocking down buildings. It's just, you know, it's just something to turn your brain off. No, this movie required your brain switched on because it was made by a japanese film studio and it's all in japanese, so it's not, it's not an american thing. And historically, the film takes place right after Japan lost with the second World War. And so a big theme. And I want to really, I want to dissect this in a way that's not going to ruin it for anyone who hasn't seen it yet. One of the themes they play with is. Okay, so I'll say that the main character is a. Was a failed kamikaze pilot. He was supposed to go on a kamikaze mission, but he pretended that his aircraft was, you know, had some. Had some maintenance issues. And so he pulled off on an island to get maintenance for a plane that was necessary. And then the war ended and now he's. Now everyone's ashamed of him because he was supposed to die in glory and stuff like that. [00:05:25] Speaker B: You're not supposed to come back. [00:05:26] Speaker A: You're not supposed to. Yeah, that's a one way trip. [00:05:28] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:05:29] Speaker A: But the. What's so powerful is that this film kind of plays with this idea. And I think it's so much more impactful that it was the Japanese who were leading this conversation. It was kind of like, this is the way that we've done it before. This is the way that our fathers have done it. But maybe this isn't the right way to do it. Maybe we need to shift our values to really fit who we are today. And I think that actually plays extremely well into what we're doing at generation spark. You know, it's about acknowledging a shift in culture and rather than opposing it, kind of saying, okay, well, what do we have to learn in this context? Right. So you probably, when you hit play on this episode, you didn't think a Godzilla movie was going to be connected to intergenerational discipleship, but here it is. [00:06:22] Speaker B: Yeah, totally makes sense. Tearing down old structures, old stereotypes, and reestablishing something new. Absolutely. [00:06:30] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. So good. So good. [00:06:33] Speaker A: So thanks for sharing that, Ron, I know that you've got a ministry in mind that you'd like to do a quick shout out for before we jump into our meat and potatoes for today. [00:06:40] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:06:41] Speaker B: So there's a ministry in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, that does this really, really beautiful work with what we call an indigenous community in the center of Edmonton. And the ministry is connected to the Christian Reformed Church in Edmonton called the Native Healing center. The executive director there is Harold Roche. I'm not going to elaborate on his story. That's his story. And I'm hoping at some point it'd be cool to interview him because I think it'd be really cool for us to hear his collective story. But he has indigenous roots and so he's leading this ministry. But there's a congregation just down the road called Inglewood Christian Reform Church and they've been a congregation in Edmonton for a number of years, but they have something called a bread ministry. And so what they do is they have a collection of volunteers. And let me just say this. There's no paid staff leading this. This is a group of people from within the congregation who feel deeply convicted that we want to help bring sustenance to a community that, in some parts, need some help. And so what they've done is they've done this bread ministry for a lot of years, and they bring sandwiches and they bring bread. And so some of the people who are. Have no home, who are wrestling with just living day to day, this congregation weekly brings in bread, and they call it a bread ministry. And what's beautiful about this is they haven't stopped doing this for years. And what's appreciated about this is that this isn't something that we need this big ministry program to do. It's out of the good graces of the hearts of those who call this a mission, something called community hospitality. That's mission focused, that's living in the world, in the everyday because they see a need. It's not because somebody says, let's build a program and do this. It's because somebody sees the need and says, let's step up together in faith and do this. [00:08:47] Speaker C: Sure. [00:08:47] Speaker B: And so praying for those people who are both responsible, receiving it, but also for those who are preparing the bread, for those who desperately need it. So I see this as very mission focused. I see this as something that not everybody has the ability to do. And they're responding to their context, and they're saying, yes, we can respond to God's call in this place and help people recognize that they're both valued, they're cared for, and they're loved in this community. And so that's just a shout out to Inglewood that reaches out and supports a ministry with the native healing center, which it's just a beautiful thing to see and watch. And so I just wanted to say thank you for the good work that you're doing there and continue. Continue to do this work that God's called you to do. [00:09:35] Speaker C: Yes. [00:09:36] Speaker A: Amazing. So, Ron, we've talked movies, we've talked shoutouts. We've mentioned Generation Spark, and what else should we say? How should we tenderize the sirloin before we throw it on the grill? [00:09:50] Speaker B: I love that. And let's. Let's face it, we're selling this sizzle, right? We are, right? [00:09:54] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:09:55] Speaker B: Totally. So, one of the things we, we think is important for you as a. As an audience listening, is maybe you're listening to this for the first time, or you've been a listener for a long, long period of time. We want to remind you that John and I and the team, and you're not just going to be hearing from John and I all the time, but our main focus will always try to be trying to connect life, trying to connect ministry, try to connect the theorizer, the academic, the one who thinks about the logistics of how we do ministry, and then the practitioner who tries to live that out in the local church into a intergenerational conversation. So when you think about those four big pieces about life in the everyday, when you think about ministry, you and I are both pastors in this world, and we're always trying to live out this space, but sometimes it's difficult to do. So sometimes we're thinking about the theory of this, and sometimes we're actually trying to practice it, do it, encourage others to do it. We're saying all four of those pieces fit into this conversation. [00:10:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:10:56] Speaker B: And so every time we do a podcast of some form, we're always going to be thinking through those lenses into an intergenerational conversation. Does that make sense to you? [00:11:07] Speaker A: I love that. And I think that captures exactly what we're trying to do, and I think that also captures really well our topic for today, which is life together. Right. [00:11:16] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:11:17] Speaker A: So I'd love to start by just kind of sharing a little story that we've kind of. It's a story that we've talked about a good deal, and we've actually even published. It kind of became one of the first little writing projects that we kind of shot out into the ether for generation spark. And it's a story that's been very, very formative into my faith walk, which I'd love to share. [00:11:39] Speaker B: Yeah, please do. [00:11:40] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:11:40] Speaker A: So I am. So I'm about 21 in this story, I think just 22. So I'll take even a few steps further back. So I knew for a long time that I wanted to go into ministry, and I didn't know what that was going to look like, especially cause I was young. I'm in my undergraduate, which I did right out of high school, and so I'm gonna finish by the time I'm 21, and I have no idea what I'm doing. I've been living in the same city my whole life, and the prospect of moving to a new city, dislodging myself from my support system, and going to somewhere else for a seminary program, all of that sounded extremely foreign to me. And so I remember this moment of prayer where God made it very, very clear to me just kind of like it was one of those statements that I just felt was, like, highlighted with that holy spirit highlighter. It's always yellow in my mind. I'm not sure why. [00:12:34] Speaker B: Yeah, I have the same thing. [00:12:36] Speaker A: It's always yellow. [00:12:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:12:38] Speaker A: And it was just like, john, I don't need you to go to seminary right now. Just hang tight, and, you know, we'll be in touch. And I'm like, all right, God. Okay. So a few weeks after that, this woman from my church says to me, completely unprovoked, John, I've heard you wanted to go to Israel, right? And I said, I mean, I'd love to. I've never told you that before. I don't even know if I've ever said that out loud, but I would. I would absolutely love to go to Israel. And so she says, well, I have this friend who is connected with a program out in Israel. You'd be serving a moshav, which is a type of kibbutz, if you're familiar with Israel. Kibbutz is basically a community that lives on a little plot of land, and they tend to support themselves. A lot of kibbutzes support themselves through agriculture and through farming. But this one had a guest house, and so it was basically kind of like a hotel where they're accepting a lot of guests in. And so what you would do is you would come here for a fixed period of time, usually three, six, or nine months, and you would work, and you wouldn't make any money, but they would offer you food, and they would offer you lodging. And this particular one happens to be in Israel's only messianic community. And so you would go, and you'd get to live with all these other christians from all over the world in the holy land and get to, you know, experience everything that had to offer, while also just, you know, working hard and putting in a little elbow grease. And I was like, this is the greatest thing I've ever heard. [00:14:06] Speaker B: Totally. [00:14:06] Speaker A: I was over the moon. I was so excited. And so a few months later, I'm there. You know, the Lord has just made everything work to get there, and I show up, and I immediately feel completely alone. This was the first time I'd ever been in a context where the majority language being spoken was not English. And there's something that does to you. This is why I've always had a lot of sympathy, a lot of empathy for people who come here from other contexts, because there's something that happens in your brain when you hear a lot of people speaking, and it's not something that you understand, and it's just like, oh, I don't like this. This feels weird. And so I'm in this community, and not everyone speaks Hebrew. A lot of people are speaking English. But what's happened was all of the volunteers who came from, let's say, Germany, are all hanging out with the other german volunteers, and all of the volunteers who came from South America, where they all speak Spanish, are all hanging out with the other spanish speaking volunteers. And so I'm going, and it's this, like, weirdly fragmented kind of group where there's 25 to 30 volunteers, but they're not, you know, kumbaya ing together. They're all kind of in their own groups where they feel most seen and most kind of culturally connected. And I'm just like, oh, I don't think I actually fit here. And, you know, that was a really, like, I was like, man, this was supposed to be, like, this amazing trip, and now I feel like I'm just gonna be lonely this whole time. And I remember I had, there was a day where I hadn't been set up with my job yet, and there was a dude by the name of David who was from South Africa, and he just kind of knew. He's like, well, I'm off today. You're not going to be working. Why don't we hang out in the little clubhouse? We'll play a little FIFA, we'll just kind of chat and stuff like that. And it was the first time that I really felt like, oh, someone is, like, making room for me to feel a little bit more connected. And I had another friend. His name was Yohai, who was actually, he lived on the moshav. He was from Israel. One day he was like, let's. Let's go to Jerusalem together, man. Let's just go explore the city. We can go to church together and yada, yada. But, like, there were just those two crucial moments where I was just, like, caught in this place of complete isolation, feeling very, very far from what I was comfortable with. And then these two little interactions were just kind of the bridge that led me to something much greater, and that actually shifted. So eventually, I did kind of have my get my click, get my little social group. But what changed there was when new volunteers came. I knew how isolating that feeling was, and so I went out of my way as often as I could to make them feel seen, welcomed, cared for, welcomed into something bigger than them. And by the time I left, I mean, I'm not gonna act like I was just this like revolutionary. But by the time I left, we had a whole stitched together family of people from all different backgrounds, but who celebrated each other. And it wasn't just these tiny little fragments and like that, that really was like such a beautiful glimpse into, this is what the church is like. This is what the church is together. Like, not broken off and divided, but like genuinely living together. [00:17:26] Speaker B: I'm so glad you had the experience of someone reaching out to you, you. But I'm wondering sometimes, and this is just, I've seen this in my own experiences where that doesn't happen. [00:17:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:17:39] Speaker B: Right. I've had conversations with young adults, family members, who have tried to feel connected to a church body to visit for the first time and feel completely lost because no one was a David to them, right. That they felt like it was difficult. And here's another thing I'm thinking about. When you brought up this idea of language, the different languages, I'm the only one who's not speaking their languages. The piece of language of culture. Right. So we have in, okay, I know we're talking about our congregations right now, but I just, as an observation, I do wonder if sometimes we typically lean into our own language of culture even though we're speaking the same language. Some of our terminologies or a language becomes very exclusive instead of reflecting in not just inclusivity, but this sense of life together as you describe it. Right. The sense of. You're welcome here, let's talk. I want to give space for you. Yeah, that's fascinating. I heard this story a few times from you and of course, with you writing the document. Thank you for the reminder. [00:18:58] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's a great point about the language of culture, too, because we like, if you're, if you're speaking with someone where they speak a language that you don't, but you're learning that language, the most valuable thing you can do, do is not chug along in your broken language, but it's stop to listen. And I think that the language of culture is very similar. Like making space for someone and then continue to kind of batter them with your kind of cultural language might just make them feel even more so, like they don't belong. But if you take that time to say, okay, well, I recognize that we're speaking different languages here, but I'm gonna stop and listen. I'm going to take the time to let them kind of. Kind of wash over me instead. Like that has so much more power. [00:19:48] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. One of the things that, that's happening within our denomination right. Now, is this what's called a one family conversation? And so this is, this is a new initiative that really looks at the diversity within our denomination, recognizing the same things that you just highlighted, John, and highlighting the fact that we have a difficult time conversing together sometimes because of conversational or, sorry, language differences. But do we give space to be heard? [00:20:21] Speaker A: Well, right. [00:20:23] Speaker B: It's not about speaking louder. [00:20:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:20:25] Speaker B: It's more about pausing and walking with in their space and trying to help them understand or help us together, understand each other's contexts a little bit and be a. David and what was the other gentleman? [00:20:39] Speaker A: Yohai. [00:20:40] Speaker B: Yohai. You know, to say, John, we see you, we hear you, let's kind of journey together. And so. But it's hard. It's not easy. Right? [00:20:49] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:20:49] Speaker B: We go into our own comfort zones. Right. We have our own language that we use on a regular basis and it's. Oh, yeah, I need to pause for a minute. Minute and recognize that somebody might not understand that. Right, right. [00:21:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:21:04] Speaker B: The other thing I'm wondering about, and I'm not sure quite how to phrase this, but I wonder, what does it look like for us? And you experienced this, and I think for a lot of people walking with somebody, we see that. But what does gracious space look like for the other? [00:21:26] Speaker C: Hmm. Yeah. [00:21:29] Speaker A: I mean, I think that for me it looked like that feeling of they see that I'm lonely, they see that I'm disconnected. And, you know, the funny thing was, like, I look back at that time that I spent with David, like I didn't like FIFA. I didn't know how to play FIFA very well. I got demolished every time. [00:21:49] Speaker B: You didn't? [00:21:49] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:21:49] Speaker A: Oh, I did. I got demolished. I'm not, I'm not very good at FIFA. I'm not very good at most video games. But that, that didn't matter, you know, like it wasn't, it wasn't perfect. Like, I think that David could have gotten in his head and thought to himself, well, I don't, I don't want to make him play something he's not going to enjoy because what if he doesn't like FIFA? What if he has a bad time? What if he feels bad? You know what? Maybe I'm not going to bother because I don't want to, I don't want to do something wrong. But in my mind I'm like, if he would have never done that, then, then I stay in the pit and I never get that. And so, like, for me it's like, it doesn't matter if it's imperfect, I just needed something. And so I think. I think we can. We can often get in our heads about that, especially with these cultural barriers where it's like, if I do this, then it's not going to come across as appreciated. But it's like, dude, there's so much space, there's so much grace for imperfect measures of life, love. Because I think that what I needed to make that a gracious space was just know that I was being thought of. Because, yeah, I mean, when you're lonely in a foreign space, I mean, which churches can be for? Let's say somebody moves to a new town and starts going to a church that, you know, is theologically familiar, but, you know, as far as, like, that community, it's very foreign. Like, they can feel that. So just that tiny little gesture, it makes a space completely different from. For them. [00:23:12] Speaker B: Do you think that helped you then, when you came back looking for a church community to be a part of? [00:23:19] Speaker A: 100%. Okay, 100%. Because I came back to a church that I'd been going to for a few years, which I think was a church that had some significant struggles that I didn't really have the perspective to understand when I left. But when I got back, I was all of a sudden like, oh, I'm. I can't do this. I can't go back to a church that values community so low, especially for me, where I feel just naturally very disconnected. I was like, because not only am I feeling outsidered now, I don't even have the opportunity to share the kind of love that I got to share when I was in Israel, which is like, I get to be someone who creates accessible spaces for someone. I can't do that if I'm still left on the outside. So when I came back, I was. I was like, no, I need a place where I can exercise this gift that God is giving me to make people feel loved and cared for. But if I can't get that from where I'm at, then that's a pretty big struggle. That's a conflict, I think. [00:24:17] Speaker B: Has that impacted how you do ministry? [00:24:19] Speaker A: Absolutely. Absolutely. I think of accessibility as one of the things that I hold to a huge standard for myself. I once to be accessible, and I want people to know that when they walk in the door, they may struggle with all of these things, with the cultural language barriers, with all different types of things. But at the very least, just as human beings, especially human beings filled with the spirit of God, I should be able to communicate to you that you are loved here. I should be able to communicate to you that you are in a space where people will care about you. And that's going to be very imperfect because we have imperfect people. And I myself am extraordinarily imperfect. But when someone comes in, especially attracting people that our church tends to attract, who have been traditionally kind of hurt by the church, I'm just like, man, I will care for you if no church has. I want my church to care for you if no other church has. [00:25:16] Speaker B: Thank you for that. As you describe that, I keep thinking, are there scriptural texts that highlight that, that help us understand that a little bit more? And before we go there, however, I keep wondering about the churches in our context. And I'm not just speaking of the denomination that we're part of, but the generality of church is that are we ministering to the marginalized, the ones who, as you described, perhaps have been hurt by the church, who maybe feel like, I don't know if I can have a life together here because of some of the experiences that I've had personally. And I've run into people like that in my ministry as well. And you, I know, I want to make sure that they know that they're cared for and loved just like you described. But it's hard because there's oftentimes people may not be wired like you and I, John. And I know that's really weird for us to here. [00:26:20] Speaker C: Right. [00:26:20] Speaker B: We are unique animals in that way. But, but I think there's a lot of us that prefer, how do we do this? [00:26:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:28] Speaker B: How do we do this? Well, how do we do this in such a way that it's, it's something that we live out in our everyday, that this isn't the programmatic approach to things. [00:26:40] Speaker C: Right. [00:26:41] Speaker B: Right. Because when we think about it in that lens, then it becomes very formulaic. [00:26:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:47] Speaker A: And it kind of reduces the problem. [00:26:49] Speaker B: It does. And so the question then, and maybe we don't have an answer for that today, but, you know, how do we do that? And how do we do that? Well, and I know with the work that we're doing with Generation Spark, it's, it's really trying to help churches try to figure out their, their own calling in their space and their context around walking with each other in faith. Right. In the difficulties and the joys in that. [00:27:12] Speaker C: Right. [00:27:13] Speaker B: And as we talked about this and we were planning for this particular episode, we were thinking what scriptural intersections show up for us as we think about this. And there were a couple that really jumped out to us. And the first one was in John four when we find Jesus with the woman at the well. [00:27:33] Speaker C: Yep. [00:27:33] Speaker B: Right? And there's a period in time where, according to the culture of that day, Jesus was not supposed to interact with this lady who was there, and he asks for a drink. And of course, they go into a much, much deeper conversation about worship and life together, this sense of what it means to be part of a faith community. And of course, he just turned the tables on what that understanding culturally was supposed to look like for somebody who was, for all intents and purposes, not supposed to be part of that community. [00:28:10] Speaker A: And what I love is that she acknowledges. She's like, you're not even really supposed to be talking to me right now. And he's like, yo, I know exactly what my expectation is, but I'm here to peer over that. Like, I'm here to step over that line in the name of love, you know, in the name of transformation, which is unbelievable. [00:28:30] Speaker B: Right? And I mean, you can go so deep into this. This text to unravel what that means for us in the everyday. But I think for me, the big takeaway is recognizing that Jesus moved past the formulaic, moved past the cultural expectations and norms and said, no, no, I'm here for you too. Yep, I'm here for you too. And even though you've dealt with a lot of things in your life, you know, I know them. [00:29:02] Speaker C: Yeah, right? [00:29:02] Speaker B: I know them. There's something more. [00:29:06] Speaker C: Mm hmm. [00:29:07] Speaker B: There's something more. And what does she do? She goes back to her. Her people and says, I just met somebody. [00:29:13] Speaker C: Yeah, right? Yeah. [00:29:14] Speaker B: I'm gonna tell you about him. I just changed my life. Changed my life. [00:29:19] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:19] Speaker A: I was at this well, but he told me there was some water that I could drink and never be thirsty again. [00:29:25] Speaker B: Right. [00:29:25] Speaker A: Like, how crazy is that? [00:29:26] Speaker B: That's crazy. [00:29:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:28] Speaker B: Amazing too. Is there another text that kind of jumps out to you? [00:29:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, we talked about this a little bit. I think of just, like, Paul's mission to the Gentiles, which, of course, as proper theologians, we recognize, is not just Paul coloring outside the lines, but it's the fulfillment of the good news. It's God saying, through my people, who were always meant to be blessed, to be a blessing to the other nations, I am making my good news known from all ends of the earth, from ends to ends, from all tribes, all nations. And for the early church to make that good news known, they had to cross lines. They had to cross barriers and borders and go from nations and literally go into places where there were cultural languages and there were languages. Languages. But it was all carrying God's heart of love for the outsider and love for the foreigner, because it's all this beautiful idea that within the family of God, there is no foreigner. Like, there is no. There's no jew or greek or male or female. Like, no one is subordinate, no one is lesser in. Like, in God's family. And, you know, when you look at that as a missionary, it can mean one thing. But when we look at that, when we take that text to our churches on Sunday and we think, well, what? Like, who is the foreigner in my church? Who is the outsider in the pews that we're sitting in? What does that person experience? What is that person longing to experience when they come to this church and they submit to singing and praying and listening to a sermon for an hour and a half? What is it they're here for? And then, how can I be Paul, speaking. Speaking words of life to someone who's hungry for them? How can I be Jesus, offering water that quenches the everlasting thirst? Like, what can that look like? How can we carry out God's heart to that person? [00:31:39] Speaker B: Yeah. That's a big challenge for us, John. [00:31:43] Speaker A: Oh, it's not an easy question. I don't. I don't think. I'm not sure I have the answer. [00:31:47] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't think I do either. [00:31:49] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:31:50] Speaker A: I'd love to write the prescription and say, you know, take two of these and call me next Sunday. [00:31:54] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:31:55] Speaker B: Exactly. Oh, yeah. One of the things that have helped me try to understand this a little bit more, and there's. There's a few resources John and I want to kind of share here, but the book actually called life together by Diedrich Bonhoeffer. [00:32:14] Speaker A: I think. [00:32:14] Speaker B: You've read it. [00:32:15] Speaker C: I'm not. [00:32:16] Speaker B: Oh, you haven't? [00:32:16] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:32:17] Speaker A: I think I have a copy in my trunk from a good friend of mine. [00:32:20] Speaker C: Okay. Who gave. [00:32:21] Speaker A: Or a good friend of ours, actually. [00:32:22] Speaker C: Okay. [00:32:23] Speaker A: Who gave it to me? Rod Hugin. [00:32:25] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, Rod. [00:32:25] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:32:26] Speaker B: So if you. If you get a chance, please read it. [00:32:29] Speaker A: Okay. [00:32:30] Speaker B: I've read it a couple times and. And have, I don't know, taken some of the information that he shared in this and really fallen in love with what he brings in these words. And he touches on the liturgy, he touches on the community. But one of the things that I'm just so deeply inspired by is just this context in second world war, doing the work that he's doing as a youth pastor. [00:33:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:33:07] Speaker B: You know, and recognizing that, no, no, something has to change. If we are called to be people of God living in this world during an incredibly horrible time during the second world war, how do we live this out? Right? And I would say one of the things that jumped out to me, not just from this book, but even from the conversations that you and I have been having around being together, life together, is how much breaking bread together breaks down the bridges or breaks down the barriers between us and actually creates opportunities for bridge making, you know, these places where we can dive a little bit deeper to have these bigger questions than just how are you? And I'm fine, right. It's going deeper. And so this authentic understanding of life together, another book I want to just share, and maybe I'll ask you to share if you have something. But Corey Seibel is a good friend of mine from used to be part of the Baptist church in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, and he was a collaborator to bring together a variety of people who did intergenerational ministry in a variety of different ways. And so this book that he helped pull together, called Engagement all generations, really focuses on. Here's some practical ways that churches around North America have been doing this, right? So building on this idea of life together and doing it in different ways, learning together, much like I would learn from you here in mission, you know, in your congregation, and then if you were to come to my congregation, that you would see that, too. And so it's those kinds of stories brought together so that people can say, oh, okay, I see how they're doing it. I wonder if we can try an experiment here like that and do those kinds of things. So those would be two books that I would say would be helpful. If you're wondering about this, if you're having a conversation around intergenerational connections and specifically around life together, that might be helpful. [00:35:16] Speaker A: I think those are two fantastic resources, and. And I think it puts a really nice bow on our. On our conversation, Ron, which is, uh, which is wonderful. And this has been a great first episode and listener. I want to say thank you so much for being with us. Yeah, this has been. What a fun ride this has been. [00:35:33] Speaker B: It's been awesome. And I'm looking forward to doing more with you and with others. And. And so if you are, like I said, listening for the first time, come back. If you've been listening for a number of times, keep coming back. [00:35:46] Speaker A: Keep coming. [00:35:46] Speaker B: Yeah, it's awesome. [00:35:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:35:48] Speaker B: Thanks for being with us. [00:35:49] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:35:49] Speaker A: Thank you guys so much. We're looking forward to recording again. And we will catch you next time.