Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: For an emerging adult. For them to hear that they actually don't have to have life solved right away, but there's time in their 20s to develop in who God has called them to be is actually something that lowers the temperature because they inevitably feel behind in some aspect of their lives, relationally, vocationally, or spiritually. If you want to help a person in their 20s, just say, hey, look, you have time. It's okay.
[00:00:25] Speaker B: Hello, listeners. It's so good to be back.
Ron Devries here with my partner from Generation Spark, Anna Radcliffe. Anna, good to see you. Good to have you here.
[00:00:36] Speaker C: Yes, hello. Good to be in the Midwest. Good to see you. Across the Canadian borders and beyond.
[00:00:42] Speaker B: We got snow on the ground, Anna. It's not a healthy place for me to be right now. I am preferring. No, seriously, I'm preferring to be with Steve Argue, as Steve is joining us from Fuller Seminary and from all kinds of other work that he's doing. Steve, welcome to the podcast.
[00:00:59] Speaker A: Hey, Ron. Hey, Anna. So good to be with you. I think we have most of the continent covered. We've got the Midwest, Canada, and then the West Coast. So this is super fun, and I'm sending sunshine and warmth your way.
[00:01:13] Speaker B: Thank you, Steve.
Thank you, Steve. Steve, are you a surfer? Is surfing something that you like to do, or are you just a runner?
[00:01:21] Speaker A: I am not a surfer. I would love to be a surfer, but I don't think I quite have that talent. But I do.
I am a runner, as. As you know, and that's pretty important to me. So.
[00:01:32] Speaker B: Awesome. Awesome.
Anna, are you a surfer?
[00:01:35] Speaker C: I am not. Though I can say that I have become a runner. Steve, what you don't know is that in April I broke my ankle, and part of my PT has been getting back into running. And so it's been. I'm now a runner. And I used to say that if I was running, likely someone was trying to murder me. Please pick me up.
[00:01:53] Speaker A: And now you love it.
[00:01:55] Speaker C: And now I love it. Yeah, it's been great.
[00:01:57] Speaker A: You know, some of us would call that a conversion experience, Anna.
[00:02:00] Speaker C: Yeah, I think that.
[00:02:02] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:02:02] Speaker A: I'm so glad you've seen the light.
Glad your ankle is bent. Oh, my goodness. My goodness.
[00:02:08] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:02:08] Speaker C: It's an interesting. It's. It's a really interesting transition.
See what I did there?
[00:02:15] Speaker A: We're here to talk about foreshadowing. Foreshadowing.
[00:02:18] Speaker C: Foreshadowing. Yes. As an English major. Well, spe. Okay, this is good. Speaking of literary terms, Steve, one of our favorite things that we like to do as we get started is some Icebreakers, and you'll get to share a little bit about your experience working with youth and young adults in a bit here.
[00:02:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:33] Speaker C: But we have a little icebreaker. We'd love to see what your empathy with youth and young adults looks like. We will all answer this question, but one of my favorite movies is the Incredibles. And if you remember, in 2004, it featured mom and Dad, who were all grown up superheroes. And they had these three children. Violet, who was in high school, Dash, who is sort of upper L. And Jack. Jack, who is the baby?
I'm curious. Choose one of them. Where would they be today?
[00:03:01] Speaker A: Such a good question. So let me just start by saying I think all parents are superheroes. You don't have to be a superhero.
[00:03:07] Speaker C: Oh, well said.
[00:03:10] Speaker A: That's true.
As I think about those three kids, I'm thinking about Jack. Jack. I mean, he was probably one in 2004.
You know, that puts him at about 21, sort of entering into this age of emerging adulthood, still trying to figure himself out. And those around him are also trying to figure him out. As a matter of fact, the band Haim, they have a song where they say, everyone's trying to figure me out.
[00:03:36] Speaker C: Yes, they do.
[00:03:37] Speaker A: You know what I mean?
And so I think not only are people in their 20s trying to figure themselves out, but everyone else is trying to figure them out as well, which really creates a lot of tension and I think is going to be really important for our conversation today.
[00:03:50] Speaker C: Oh, I love that. All set.
[00:03:52] Speaker A: So good.
[00:03:53] Speaker B: Can I pick one? Anna?
[00:03:54] Speaker C: Yeah. Violet or Dash, who are you picking?
[00:03:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm taking Dash. Yeah, Dash.
I kind of envision him. Well, as we know, he's the middle child. Right. And so there's a lot of complex things there.
I can't guess his age. Mid 20s, late 20s is probably where we'd find him. I would say that he's right now dropped out of college, trying to figure out what he wants to do with his life. Having a really, really tough time getting there, and currently working at Starbucks.
He was just awarded being the fastest barista in the world. And he's really, really struggling whether or not he needs to keep doing this job. And so I think he's looking for something else, but that's where I think we'd find Dash, so.
[00:04:34] Speaker C: Well said, Ron.
[00:04:36] Speaker A: He was mean for that granular. That was amazing.
[00:04:39] Speaker C: Yeah, he had time to think about that. To be fair.
You know, I think Violet, Violet is kind of in her mid-30s. She's planning not to have kids, it's just not the sustainable option.
She lives with her partner, she's got three cats. They spend a lot of money on pet bills.
She's really trying to figure out who she is. A lot of the time she feels invisible. She took on the family, the family biz. She didn't go to college and just stepped right into to superhero ness.
And yeah, her partner and her are just trying to see what's next. They don't feel really super stable, but they're living in Chicago, paying a lot for rent and a lot of, you know, her partner's got a lot of student loans, so. So just trying to figure it out.
[00:05:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, I that beautiful. Yeah, I love the way you captured that.
[00:05:28] Speaker C: Oh, thank you. You did a great job with Jack. Jack. I did wonder where you might go.
[00:05:32] Speaker A: That's so good. Yes. Well, all of you, I mean, I think we've got it figured out actually. There should be like a 25th anniversary.
Like, where are they now? Incredibles.
[00:05:41] Speaker C: I know I did. When I was thinking about this prompt, I imagined the film and like there's all this tension right. Between the parents and the kids as they're trying to parent grandkids.
Yeah, the whole thing. There's a lot of opportunity there. Pixar. I'm just gonna say you heard it here first.
[00:06:01] Speaker A: You did, right? I'm, you know, I'm probably the closest to Hollywood. I'll do my job and go over and see what I can do about that.
[00:06:06] Speaker C: I think that'd be great.
[00:06:07] Speaker B: Well, and here's the interesting thing, right? Both Steve and I, before we came on air, we were talking about being grandparents. Right.
For the first time or, you know, for a few times. I think the implications for a follow up movie are huge for just even the two of us and maybe others that are listening right now who are currently grandparents as well. Thank you so much for leaning into this, Steve and Anna. This is so good. I love that.
One of the practices we have on our calls are typically leaning into a shout out for a ministry that's been dear to our hearts.
Steve, I know you said you might have something that you'd like to share with our audience, so feel free. What's a ministry that dear to your heart?
[00:06:45] Speaker A: Thanks. Thanks for asking. I mean, there are so many great ministries, it's hard to just say one. But one that we've been involved with is called Door of Hope and they work with homelessness here in the Pasadena and Los Angeles county area. We're really trying to help Individuals, and particularly families get out of homelessness. And this is more than just sort of the immediate need. This is something that's quite systemic as well. And so they really think about not only the housing element, but also the educational element and the parenting element and all that comes with really helping people reset their lives after traumatic experiences to do that. And so their commitment to that and their success has been quite remarkable and just a shout out to them. I'm grateful for their presence here in LA county and for the inspiration they are to many of us.
[00:07:36] Speaker B: I so appreciate you bringing this ministry up. It's something that we, as a, as a local church, you know, we're dealing with homelessness around us from time to time. And so as a community of faith, how do you walk with them and how do help them navigate? And sometimes it's a little bit more complicated than just simply here's something. But these people that give and work with and walk alongside, that's such a beautiful thing. Thank you, Steve, for pointing that out for us.
[00:08:04] Speaker A: Well, you're welcome. And thank you. Door of Hope.
[00:08:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
Friends, if you've been listening to us, this is your first time, or you've been listening to us for many, many, many times, I just want to remind you there that our focus will always try to be connecting life ministry, the theorizer and the practitioner into an intergenerational conversation. And like today, we're so grateful to have Steve argue joining us for this conversation.
Steve has years of experience within youth and young adult ministry.
When we asked him to join us, he very quickly said yes. And so we appreciate you jumping and helping us with this particular episode. For those of you who don't know, Steve also helped us with some of our pre work for Generation Spark, leaning into what's called the seven transitions. And Steve's going to unpack that a little bit for us when we think of ministry to and with young adults.
So let's just go there. Steve, tell us a little bit about yourself. Tell us a little bit about your own ministry calling as you lean into this work that God's called you to.
[00:09:16] Speaker A: Yeah, tell us a little bit about yourself. Yeah, thanks, Ron. Thanks, Anna. I just appreciate you both. I love this conversation because we're not meeting each other for the first time. I trust you. I've loved the work that you've been doing with Generation Spark, and you both have inspired me in some really, really significant ways. So it's great to be with you really quick. You know, we all have our stories, right? And as I think about my calling, I think about two things. One is that calling is always autobiographical. So as much as we say that we work with young people, it's usually because it's come out of an experience that we've had personally. And the other thing I tell my graduate students all the time is the things that we pursue. The things that pursue us, I suppose, are typically the things that haunt us.
Like something that keeps us up at night, something that. A question that we just need to figure out. Like, it's more than just, like, academic. It actually is, like, I've got to figure this out because I have to figure out how the world works. And so, for me, I think that the reason that I work with young people is I think there were people in my life when I was younger that just kind of showed up at the right time for me, that they saw something in me before I could see it in myself. And that had a dramatic impact on my teenage and my college years. Eventually, after a few different things I did, I ended up as a youth pastor. Didn't really know I was going to end up there, but I did. And I really fell in love with working with young people.
The questions they brought, the stories they brought, the energy they brought. I think that a lot of the reasons for who I am today are because I still hold on to sort of the energy and the hopefulness that comes with young people and the next generation. But what happened for me in particular is I would graduate my students from high school because I was a high school pastor at a church in Milwaukee, and they would go off to college or work or military, and then they'd come back to check in with me, and they'd be asking me questions that surprised me. The questions were deeper. The questions were questions that were questioning their faith. And I started to wonder if I had prepared them for life after high school, which I thought I did an awesome job at it, realizing that may not be the case. So these questions haunted me to the point where I really wanted to begin to study. Well, what happens after high school? What does this begin to look like? So my doctoral work at Michigan State was understanding how undergraduates experience and work through spiritual struggle at a public university.
This opened up a whole new realm of study for me with regards to emerging adulthood. And when I graduated from Michigan State, that's when I've already been connected with the Fuller Youth Institute. But with Fuller and the Full Youth Institute, I joined them out here in California, and I have been able to research on emerging adulthood, teach a course here at the seminary on emerging adulthood, spirituality and ministry. And I feel like the pieces for me have sort of come together where this calling, perhaps. I've tried to figure it out, but I feel like it's gotten a hold of me just through the experiences and the hauntings that I've had. And so I really believe in what I do as an academic, as someone who's an ordained pastor, as someone who is a parent.
This affects us all. Kind of like the Incredibles family.
We all are impacted by each other. And so it raises a lot of questions and conversations and emotions and hauntings that I want to be a part of, and I want to be part of that conversation. And so that's why I'm here with you now and why I believe in what I do and what I tell my students all the time is I'm not messing around.
There's good news to be told. There are people that matter. And I want to be in the middle of those beautiful conversations as much as I can.
[00:12:54] Speaker C: Wow.
So there's something really profound, Steve, about.
I think you sort of take this lived experience, you combine it with some. Some research and information, knowledge, study, and you come to this place then where you're sort of handing the both of those things back to students.
I think for a lot of our listeners, they're hungry for some of that information. It seems like they have this felt experience. They can feel it in their gut that something is off, that what they've been given is not working.
And I think that's what has brought us to this new research that you guys have done with the seven transitions.
Because it. It so beautifully for the practitioner. It gives them some tools to be able to articulate what they're seeing through a lens that's actually real.
And so I'm. You know, we've kind of been joking about the word transitions. I'd love for you to just walk us up, give us kind of at a high level, what are these seven transitions? How do you kind of bring this in to this conversation of youth and young adults emerging adulthood and within the church?
What does this research look like?
[00:14:03] Speaker A: Yeah, thanks, Anna. I really appreciate that. And let me just piggyback on something you just said before I answer that. I mean, as I talk with ministry leaders and with parents and adults that care about young people, I never find the issue is that they don't love or care or like young people.
I think. I think you're right. I think they just feel like maybe the ways that we've approached them or the assumptions that we have about them or the language that they use seems more foreign to us. And. And so we feel a bit caught in knowing what to do, even though we really want to do something. And I love to operate from. From the posture of we all want to do better. Yeah, we all care. That's not the problem. Right. A lot of times it's just the fact that the world is moving faster than ever and people's experiences change. And we have to, if we care about young people and be more attuned to what's sort of happening in their lives. And I don't think that means being hip with the kids or just being relevant. I think it's more about truly understanding and listening to their stories, because then when we do that, I think that's when we can really see, seek to understand and connect the wisdom, as you said, and the care that we have for them in ways that land with. With young people. And that's really what kind of led us to the research that we did on transitions. So the work that we did on transitions was really focused on emerging adults and their transitions. And so just for clarity, let me just define what I mean by that. Emerging adulthood. A lot of times we use young adulthood. That's completely fine as well. But in the circles that I run in, if look at a lot of the academic literature, you have this idea of emerging adulthood, which is ages 18 to 30. Now, what I actually like about the term emerging adulthood is that too often I think that people haphazardly will use the phrase 20 something.
And the problem I have with 20 something is that we don't call any. Any of our other relationships somethings. I don't call you a friend something or a child something, or I would never call my mother a mother something.
[00:16:13] Speaker C: Like I'd be in trouble for 80 something. I mean, 80 something.
[00:16:17] Speaker A: 60 something, right, exactly. So I think what happens that is, it's. It feels a bit dismissive and a bit ambiguous for a group of people that are actually trying to seek clarity in their lives.
So what I love about emerging adulthood is that it has. It has two elements to it, and this is just a great way to remember it. I try to remind emerging adults this all the time. It has time and it has a telos. Okay? Time is the emerging part. So for an emerging adult, for them to hear that they actually don't have to have life solved right away, but there's time in their 20s to develop in who God has called them to be, is actually something that lowers the temperature because they inevitably feel behind in some aspect of their lives relationally, vocationally or spiritually. Okay? So if you want to help a person in their 20s, just say, hey, look, you have time. It's okay. Like relax, breathe.
You got this, right?
There's also a telos. That's the adult part in emerging adulthood. Meaning the telos is this idea of a goal, a purpose, a direction that you want to go. And most people in their 20s, again, want to have this sense of traction with their relationship, with their vocation and or with their spirituality by the time that they hit 30. 30, okay? So if someone's approaching 30 and you're like, hey, you're almost 30 and you see beads of sweat on their foreheads, it's because for them, 30 is this pretty significant marker for them. So what I try to remind emerging adults all the time is for them to say this mantra to themselves. I have time and I have a telos. I have time to allow this to unfold. And there's a purpose for my life that God is wanting me to find clarity in as well. And I want to help them with that.
[00:17:56] Speaker C: Okay?
[00:17:57] Speaker A: So that's what emerging adults are, which I think can be really, really helpful when we think about this. Now, what we did is we wanted to look at transitions. For this reason we asked the question, and this I think is really, really crucial. We said, where do emerging adults say they need us the most?
Okay, What I hear from a lot of well meaning leaders and pastors on Sunday morning is they will ask the question, why aren't the young adults here at church? Okay, Now I know the heart of that question, okay? The heart is they care. Okay? So let's just again, we're going to assume that, right? I don't actually find that question very interesting because I think if we were to hold service on 9 o' clock on Sunday night, we might be asking the same question of those over 50. Okay? So, you know, there's something logistical going on here. I think the more interesting question is, if they're not here, where are they? And where do they need to show? Where do we need to show up where they need us the most? And that feels like a very gospel question, right? Jesus all the time would be like, so what do you want? Why do you call me good? What do you need?
The question of where people actually need us is actually a very gospel oriented question. And so we ask that question when it comes to emerging adults, where do we need to show up where they need us the most? And we recognize the fact that Perhaps transition is this place. Now, the way I define transition, or at least the way we think emerging adults talk about it, is this is. They say, I'm trying to find my way between what has been and what's about to be.
Think about that for a second.
Usually what happens as you move in your 20s, there are things that got you here that won't get you there. You need new skills, new relationships, new perspectives. Your world gets more complex, and therefore, whatever you are relying on to get you to here won't necessarily get you to there. So what do I have to do? I have to lay down the things that got me here. The good, the bad, the hard, the beautiful, and I have to search for new things to help me move forward. This is the moment when people in their 20s may actually look up and say, I think I need help.
I don't think I know what the future looks like. I'm not sure what skills I need. I think I need help or mentoring or whatever. And I'm thinking to myself, I wonder if there's an institution in the United States that has wisdom, that has resources, that has the impulse to want to help people make it to their 30s with traction along the way. And that's the church, right?
[00:20:43] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:20:43] Speaker A: So I'm pretty hopeful that churches and emerging adults could actually get together if we show up where they say they need us the most. So transition is this place where this happens. So what we did then is we did a massive literature review looking at, well, what transitions have been studied with regards to emerging adults. We came up with a conceptual framework that we tested with a nationally representative sample of over a thousand emerging adults who identify as Christian and had a significant event happen in their life.
We tested our framework, and we realized that it was true that there were actually seven transitions that seem to be most prevalent for those who are in their 20s. Now, why is this helpful for us as parents and pastors? This is why. Because when you stand in front of an emerging adult and you're like, I want to talk with them, and I don't know what to talk about.
We have now reduced it to seven things. Okay, this is great, because you're like, well, what's on an emerging adult's mind? Probably one of these seven transitions that they're working through right now. Right now. I don't think that means we jump right in and we're like, what's your transition? What's your problem? But I think if we listen with these lenses of these seven transitions, we actually can hear pretty closely what they're working through. And this allows us then to really understand where they're coming from and perhaps even be able to offer them help along the way. Okay, before I do the seven, I'm just going to take a. I'm going to take a breather because I just said a lot of things. Anna. Ron, is there anything you want to come back to me for or want me to clarify?
[00:22:11] Speaker B: Two things that jumped out to me. Asking for help. I think that's a difficult thing for anyone to do.
And the realization of the need to have relational capital to be able to be in that space to ask for help, because this is not an easy thing to do, even in the best of circumstances. So that's really interesting. I just. I heard that and I thought, oh, this is. This is fascinating. The other thing that you mentioned that I'm.
It's just there, it's. It's in the stew, and I'm just stirring it up because I think it has implications for this deeper conversation. It's around these transitions as new learnings for. And tools to navigate a new reality.
We're talking about toolkits to help us navigate. Right.
Just as an example, I watched a series. It was on Apple tv. I won't go too much into detail, but these two guys were riding their motorcycles from South America up to la, and they did this over three months. They needed to have the tools in their toolkit to deal with whatever comes their way.
And I think for a lot of our young adults, those toolkits may need to be filled or may need to be rejigged a little bit to try to figure out, how are we going to, do I have the right tools? Do I have the things that I need to navigate? So those are two things that jumped out to me as you were talking.
[00:23:36] Speaker A: Yeah, Ron, those are so insightful. Let me respond to them in reverse order. I think the toolkit's really important. And I think one of the things that's hard sometimes for adults, I'm one of them. I'm one of the older types, is that we actually remember our twenties pretty well, maybe better than our teenage years. Right. And I think sometimes when we assume that we remember our 20s, we know people in their 20s today. And I think this is where we have to be really, really careful. Some will call this closeness bias. Right. We think that we know a person when we may not know them as well as we think that we do. So what we have to do as we think about this toolkit is step into it with a new Sense of curiosity. And what do I really need rather than assume, like, oh, I've got this, and I'll figure it out. Like, I actually need to think about that. So I think this is where the transitions become really, really helpful.
The other thing that I'll say, which is I think really, really important, is that I think that perhaps some of us on this podcast would say, well, I've asked people in their 20s what they need help with, and their answer is, usually, I don't know.
Why is that? Let me give you two reasons why I think it is. Number one, they don't know.
They honestly don't know. And so part of my work with. Working with emerging adults with these seven transitions is to give them language for their experiences. Because sometimes you can feel, but you don't have the language for it. Okay, so I'm doing my job on the other end of this equation as we ask adults to listen well, is to help emerging adults explain.
Well, as a matter of fact, one of the things I tell emerging adults is their job is not to report on their life based on the categories of adults. Their job is to educate adults on the categories that actually reflect their lives. They have a responsibility.
That's pretty good, isn't it? I love that, Ron, you just sat back. Boom.
[00:25:21] Speaker B: I just. Boom. Mic drop.
[00:25:22] Speaker A: Right? That's pretty good. And that gives them a sense of empowerment, which I think is really, really important.
The other thing that I think you tipped your hand on this a little bit, Ron, is I do think that sometimes emerging adults have conflicting feelings about asking for help. Because there's an expectation that while I'm almost an adult, I should have it figured out on my own by now. I have conversations with graduate students who are brilliant, like, embarrassed that they don't have their lives figured out at 25. Right. And I'm like, why do you think you need to have it figured out right now? Is it possible that you actually need help? And part of growing up is not being independent. It's being interdependent, Knowing how to invite people into your lives to continue to help you continue to grow. But that, in many ways, is a new skill for people in their 20s. So when we take these two things in context, I think it's interesting that you've brought that up, and it really. I appreciate that a lot. I think it's really, really helpful.
[00:26:23] Speaker B: I think it touches on something. And, Anna, you can follow up on this. I'll just.
One of the things I recognize as I get a little bit older and I'm not super that old. Right. But there's things like this super kettle, Steve.
So I watch some of the generation before me, and one of the things that shows up in my life with some of them is that they don't even want to ask for help because there is this independence to say, no, no, no, no, we don't count on. But I think we need to be reeducated about what it means to actually be part of the community of fellowship and realize we need each other. We need each other in this space.
And I think we need to model that a little bit.
[00:27:07] Speaker A: We do. And I think this is where we can really learn from certain communities in our.
Where the collective nature is so part of their identity. Right. This interdependence is like second nature, which sometimes isn't always the case for. For other cultures as well. And I do think in Western culture, though, I think. I think independence is often celebrated. Right. And I think that that can be. I think that can be confusing for someone in their 20s that is trying to become an adult in a world, by the way, where adulthood is pretty vague at this point. Like, when does one become an adult? Right. At 18, when I can vote, at 21, when I can drink, at 25, when I can finally rent a car. Like, there's confusion in society about when one becomes an adult. And so if you see a 20, someone in their 20s, like, really wrestling with their becoming an adult, it's not because they don't necessarily want to, it's because they don't know how to.
So we have to keep that in mind as well.
[00:28:06] Speaker C: Yeah, I just want to add this, Steve, because I think it creates some of that more robust theologicalness too. I. It's not just in culture that we're seeing this need for inter. Interdependence. I appreciate that. I mean, we're seeing this across the landscape of the Christian church, primarily in Ron and I denominations.
And I just wanted to say, like, we had a training where we were leading a church, a few churches, through Deuteronomy 6. It's very familiar, schmall, you know, and there's this moment in that text where it talks about the oneness of God and then it moves to the communalness of the body, how in which we're being instructed and invited to come alongside of one another.
And as I was walking that through, you know, the kind of first imagery that we use is a kind of picture of someone walking alone on the beach.
And that has been the image that we've been handed of Christian Spirituality in America, that it is us and God alone, and it is our responsibility to get right with God so that we can walk faithfully towards the shiny heavenly gates.
[00:29:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:14] Speaker C: But when you actually read the text, it's talking about the communal posture that we're meant to live in fellowship. And so it becomes this whole beautiful picture of inner relationship among generations as we're passing on the legacy of faith.
So I was sharing this and one of these east coast churches, you know, I say that specifically because that's where we're seeing it the most. Right. Is in these coastal spaces, big cities, where there's this individualized sense that I'm on my own. And the pastor hit the table and he goes, that is so countercultural. That is so countercultural. And I was like, whoa. You know, I was just kind of taken aback by his response to it because to me, like, that's.
That's what the gospel says. Like, that's, that's what the invitation is.
And, and we forget even that it, that this is not just among emerging adults. But I appreciate how you said it's their first time going through this.
[00:30:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:17] Speaker C: And unfortunately, the skill is not maintained even into adulthood. I mean, you just see that. So I think this is such a beautiful opportunity for us to say, this is the theology.
Theology is communal.
[00:30:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:32] Speaker C: Cultural invitation is communal. And what we're seeing in research and data is an invitation to be communal. It's kind of every sphere. So anyway, let's keep talking a little bit more about these seven transitions. What are the seven transitions?
[00:30:44] Speaker A: I know, we've just strung it out so long. People are like, would you get to the seven transitions?
[00:30:49] Speaker C: I'm gonna speed you up on two times. Speed.
[00:30:51] Speaker A: I know, I know. Exactly, exactly. Okay, so it's, it's a little tricky, obviously, just on a podcast to go into great detail. So I'm gonna kind of give you a 30,000 foot look at these. But I'll tell you what we've discovered. Now, remember, just a couple things. I'm gonna give you a couple of caveats. Number one, I don't think your listeners, like all of us listening to this, are gonna be absolutely surprised by these seven transitions. They're gonna be familiar, which is actually good. Right. But secondly, I just wanna double down on what you said. Remember that I get this a lot from older types, like my peers, who will say, well, transitions. We all go through transitions. Why is this such a big deal for emerging adults? And it's because that they're going through it on their own for the first time they're like cutting the wake in their lives for the first time in some of these things. Up to this point, they've usually had a parent or a legal guardian that sort of shouldered a lot of the movement and change in their lives. But in your 20s, you sort of have to own and face these things yourself. And so I think as I share these, let me just offer our listeners two things. One, remember these as like the first time you went through a crushing moment in your life rather than when you're older and you're like, yeah, you know, it was bad, but I got through it. Right. That doesn't help anybody. Right.
So I think that that's important to remember. And then the other thing I just want you to keep in mind is as you think about these things, try to think about people that you know in your 20s that you actually love and care about.
I find that when people want to, whenever they hear about what I study, they always seem to want to report to me their latest, like Twitter feed or Instagram article that they say about young people these days, I'm sorry, that. Is that sounding a little dark?
[00:32:29] Speaker B: We won't do that, we won't do that.
[00:32:32] Speaker A: But deep down, like when I put, after I roll my eyes as a researcher, I put my pastoral hat on and I go, I know what you're doing right now.
It's not about emerging adults out there.
It's about your daughter, it's about your grandson, it's about someone you mentor, it's about a godchild. It's actually someone that you know really closely, that you care about.
And I find people actually, when they talk about this topic, they're actually talking about someone they care about. And that gives me compassion when I, when I hear them trying to make sense of what's going on, that this is more than a data, a data download to me. This is actually like they actually care about somebody. So maybe you can think of somebody you care about right now as we talk about this list. And it can move from only our heads into the relational space that Anna has so eloquently invited us to think about. Okay, without further ado, the seven transitions, these are no order. You can experience more than one. There's a lot of things here, but I'm going to pull them apart ever so gently just so that you can understand them. The first one that we call is the self identifying transition. And this has to do with this idea of identity.
Why this is important is that emerging adults have the capacity, the psychological ego and Actually the brain development to really ask themselves, well, who am I? Like, who am I really? And this is, this is multifaceted because they start to think about their lives and the stories that have been told about them. Okay, so this will draw on their, their gender, their race, their ethnicity, their orientation, their religious upbringing, where they live in the world, the stories that have been told to them by their parents and influential people in their lives. And what they are trying to do is to take all these narratives and try to harmonize them in their lives, asking themselves, what am I going to leave behind? Because it's not true. And what is true that I'm actually taking forward?
And so this question of who am I? Is more than just answering that question. They literally are thinking about how they want to present themselves to the world. So the answer isn't just a list of things of who am I? It literally is them saying, this is who I am.
This is how I present myself to others. This is who I want others to see me to be. And as you can imagine, this takes a lot of effort and it can be really, really scary because sometimes it means that perhaps who they are is different than what other people thought that they would be or would want them to be. Some might even respond to that. After an emerging adult says, this is who I am, they will say, no, you're not. Okay, so this is a really important moment of them defining themselves and harmonizing all these different elements of, of who they are.
Really, really important thing. A lot wrestle with this as they think about this. And it's tied to many other things, right? Like, not only like, it can be tied to what they do, it can be tied how they see themselves. And it really gets into some deep spiritual things as well. It's like, what does it mean for me to be a follower of Jesus? What, how do I identify as that and how do I think about that? So that's the self identifying transition, relating. The next one is the relating transition.
Now, when we think about relationships, these are all the different types of relationships that an emerging adult has. This could be a romantic partner, it could be friendships, it could be family relationships. It's all these different relationships that they're curating. The way I like to think about it is emerging adults are doing three things with relationships. They're choosing which relationships they want to deepen. They're choosing which relationships they want to distance themselves from, create boundaries, because perhaps there's some unhealthy, and there's also relationships that they want to discover. Okay, so this is stepping out and developing new relationships, which is really, really important for emerging adulthood, that they actually have more opportunities and relationships, that they can do that as well. So what an emerging adult is doing is trying to figure all that out. What we found from the data, which is really interesting, is that a lot of them lamented that they had deep relationships, say, in college, but after college they were ghosted by their friends.
So what I think we're trying to speculate is that sometimes emerging adults, especially in a socially connected world, what does it mean to say goodbye? What does it mean to honor a relationship and let it go? What does it mean to define what the relationship will look like moving forward? These are deep and pressing questions that emerging adults have and that they're working through. And this, this is especially true after perhaps a school to work transition or a major transition in your 20s where you've had deep community. And then something shifts or changes that becomes really, really crucial. And not a lot of support is given sort of after gap year or college or military. That really is an empty space for emerging adults as they try to find themselves again. And so if you had know of any emerging adults in those spaces, pay attention to how they're thinking about their relationships because they're trying to negotiate that. A third transition we call is the contributing transition. And this has to do with vocation or calling or your job. We wanted it bigger than vocation in that it's not just what you do, it's actually how you bring yourself into situations. So this could be something I'm pursuing, but oftentimes it has to do with the role that I play within a community, Especially if the. The community is more collective and more community oriented. Now that I'm older, what place do I have in the community? How am I supposed to bring myself and my voice?
What does the community expect of me and what do I expect of the community? And so there's a lot of things going on there. I like to think about the fact that emerging adults are probably living in two tensions when it comes to the contributing transition. One tension is they're asking the question. It's more of an aspirational question, like, what do I want to do with my life? What's the fingerprint I want to make in my world? I love the optimism and the possibility that is there. You know, I mean, enjoy that. When you talk with emerging adults, like, just ask them, like, what are you working on? Like, what's giving you life and energy? They will open up with that, which is really interesting. Interesting Too. If you ask them, like, where they work, they probably won't.
They'll probably give you an answer. But ask them what their side hustle is and watch them come alive, and nine out of 10 of them will have side hustle, I guarantee it. Okay? Now, the opposite tension of the contributing question is not just like, what's the fingerprint I want to make in the world? The question is also, how do I pay the rent? Okay. So it's very pragmatic as well. That part of contributing is just the very practical aspects of how am I going to make it to tomorrow with the everyday requirements that are placed on me. And so sometimes emerging adults really wrestle with like, how.
How do I live into my aspirations, but also put food on the table for tomorrow? And, you know, again, as older adults, we're like, well, that's what we all do. But for an emerging adult, and the first time they're thinking about that, it's a big deal. Especially when a lot of them been told through their high school years, you can be anything you want to be, they come to the point where that's realizing that that's not true. And when they say yes to something, it's no to something else. So they can feel excited and grieve at the same time. Right.
So the contributing transition is quite powerful for them.
The fourth transition is the taking responsibility transition. And again, what we think about this one is like, emerging adults are just taking on more of their own responsibilities when it comes to being of legal age and that medically, educationally, all these things, they've realized that they have to sort of take these on themselves, and that can be really overwhelming for them. One of the biggest things that it falls in this category is just budgeting.
[00:40:25] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:40:25] Speaker A: How do I. How do I have a budget? Look, if you want to, like, now, I know if you want to win emerging adults over, like, though all you business people in your churches kind of say, hey, let's sit down and let's put together a budget for you. They will, they will. They will rise up and call you like a superhero. Like they. That is really, really practical, and that's what they're looking for. So this idea of taking responsibility becomes really, really crucial for them as they own more of their lives. And don't live it passively, but live it actively. Actually, there's something that we talk about a lot, and that's this idea of agency. Right. An emerging adult is taking on more of their responsibility. And here's how I define agency. It's living your Life more from the inside out than the outside in.
Okay. I have to own it for myself. I have to act on my convictions. I have to make my faith my own. If we use spiritual language, right? So it's this owning of myself and living out of those convictions rather than doing things for external reasons because I'll get punished or I can get a better grade. See the difference? Right. So there's more of this that's happening when one takes responsibility.
Now, the fifth transition has to do what we call self caring transition, which at first was a subset of the self caring transition, because it sounds a little bit the same, but we realized that this was so prevalent because emerging from adults are realizing that they need to take care of their physical health, their emotional health and their social health.
And this is actually a really significant place where they realize they have to hold that. Now, the mental health is probably not surprising. If anybody on this podcast has worked with young people, that mental health is a really, really important thing. And you all have probably done a podcast on that already. For emerging adults, what we're finding is post pandemic, while other ages, the reports of mental health have come down slightly, not completely to pre pandemic levels, but slightly emerging adults has stayed relatively the same. They're probably the age group that is wrestling the most with mental health right now. So I think it's important when we talk about the pandemic that it's not the past for them. Yeah, they're still feeling the ripple effects of it.
[00:42:34] Speaker C: That's really important. That feels really, really, Steve. Yeah.
[00:42:38] Speaker A: And then physical health is really interesting. Obviously they're learning that, like, they can't like live and eat at 25 the way they did at 18. Like, you know, you kind of have that moment. Right.
[00:42:48] Speaker C: Thank God they feel it.
[00:42:49] Speaker A: I know they feel it now.
I know. Right.
But what we found that was surprising and really interesting is a lot of them realized that as they moved into emerging adulthood and took on these responses, responsibilities that they had to take ownership of a childhood illness. To really think about the fact that I have diabetes and it will be with me the rest of my life and I can't expect someone else to pay attention to that. I have to pay attention to that now. Again, that doesn't sound like a big deal for when we're older, but when you're 22 and you realize that you have to shoulder something for the rest of your life, that's a pretty overwhelming place to take that on. And, and so that becomes really, really important for them as they think about this idea of self caring. Another, another transition that's really crucial for them is what we call an acclimating or an adapting transition. And this, this idea of acclimating or adapting is emerging. Adults move a lot.
As a matter of fact, they move more than anybody else.
And this could be a physical move to another part of say, the country or the world. It also can just be a move with one's job.
And so when I acclimate or I adapt, if I'm an emerging adult, I have to, let's say with a new company, I have to step into a new country and I have to figure out how does it work here?
What does success look like? What conversations can I have and can I not have?
Who can I trust? Who do I really need to listen to? And what does it mean for me to, to navigate this space? That's a big deal for them. I actually think that this is, this is going to be an interesting topic down the road. I think as we've gone to being more distributed in our, in our work where we can pop on zoom and have meetings because we're not in the office, I think what we've missed that perhaps all of us on this call experience much more in work, is that we used to be in the same office building or place and we could have water, cool conversations, right? It was actually the conversations before and after the meeting where the decisions were really made, not during the meeting.
So you develop this sense almost like an emotional intelligence that you don't have when you just pop in and pop off on zoom. So I actually think emotional intelligence is actually going to be a really crucial skill to have for the future, because I think online has taken that away from a generation so far where for those of us that pop on zoom now we still know how to have those conversations because we had to when we were in our formative years.
So I think this becomes really, really important. And then I think also just moving, I think that's a big deal for someone to pick up and move. And probably one of the ways that I think about this a lot is emerging adults concept of home. If you ask an emerging adult where's home? And they pause, it's because they're thinking, is it my family of origin? Is that what you want me to ask? Is it where I had a significant experience, where a lot of my friends are still? Or is it where I'm living now? Home is an elusive term. And as we, you know, we're recording this right before Thanksgiving, that's Why we have Thanksgiving and friends.
I actually think that that is a cultural icon that we need to pay attention to because emerging adults actually find that a lot of their community isn't where they are, it's who they're with.
[00:45:58] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:46:00] Speaker A: And I think this is also crucial for emerging adults in that. Because home is so elusive, because they don't know how long they're going to be there as they move for different jobs or situations. Because we live in a world where that's just the way they have to operate to survive.
I think as pastors especially, we have to ask ourselves, when an emerging adult comes to our church, can we view them as being at home in the short term rather than the long term?
I don't know about you, but when I'm asked to join a small group, it's kind of like you never leave it unless you sign your name in blood.
Leaving a small group is really, really hard because we have this long term vision for what we think community will be, which is absolutely beautiful. The reality is, is that emerging adults can't make that commitment.
They literally cannot make a 12 month, 6 month, 3 month commitment because they actually don't know where their life is going to take them. And so it's sometimes easier to not commit because they don't want to let anybody down or they don't want to commit too deeply because they don't want to say goodbye because it's really painful.
Can we provide an opportunity for emerging adults to feel at home even if they're only there for a month to three months?
Our church, we used to have something called short circles. They were basically six week small groups where people could do it for six weeks and if they wanted to keep going, they could re up for another six weeks or there was a release valve where they could graciously step out because their lives were moving or changing. I think we as churches, we would do well to think about this in betweenness that emerging adults have and how we can serve them. There are people that are like lifers in our churches and we celebrate those relationships and that stability. The reality is, is that emerging adults don't have that luxury and they feel on the outside looking in unless we are aware of the roles that they play. And you know, I think theologically, I think we could be okay with that, like if the church is universal. Like what if we are just like these way stations for emerging adults where we love them, we equip them and we cheer them on as they pass through our communities and then we point them to another community. That seems such a beautiful way that we can amplify the universal church. Rather than getting upset or feel offended because they didn't stick around very long, right? Like let's, let's honor them for their presence, for the gift of however long they're here, and then send them on with joy. Like, I think that that would leave a great taste in the mouth of emerging adults. The final transition is the meaning making transition. And some of you are like, where's the spiritual in all of this? Let me just argue and say everything is spiritual. And so I think these are all spiritual. But I think if we were to pull out this idea, I think that we landed on the word meaning making just because I didn't want to get in the debate about religious and spiritual, spiritual but not religious and all that kind of conversation. I think deep down what emerging adults are doing is this, is that they are trying to make sense of their spirituality. I think an emerging adult is saying, how does my faith keep up with my increasingly complex world? Okay, that's, that's faith for them. And as they think about that internally, intellectually, emotionally, they also desperately want to express their beliefs and convictions with other people that they can share it with. And that's the community piece.
That could be church, but it's not always the only thing. It could be the yoga studio, it could be CrossFit, it could be volunteerism, it could be other things. Now let's just be honest. I'm not saying the church is like CrossFit. I'm only saying that emerging adults are looking for ways to express their values and their convictions and they're going to find the place that can do that. So what we have to do, I think as churches is to be sensitive to, well, what are the convictions that they have and how do we help them find connections within the communities that we are a part of. And I think a church can do that quite well. And we don't have to be mad at CrossFit, but I think, I think that's an interpretation of what we're trying to do with the meaning making. And this becomes really, really crucial. Emerging adults are probably asking a ton of questions about their faith. They also have a lot of doubt, which is not the opposite of faith. It's just the other side of faith.
Part of faith is doubt because it's in our doubt that we ask the deeper questions that allow us to see that perhaps our perceptions of God in the world are limited. And this opens up to new possibility.
The key that we Need, I think, in our churches and with leaders and as mentors, is to be able to have the ability to hang in there with them and not be too quick to give them the answers, but to walk alongside them as well. Which is hard because at least from some of my research, I've discovered that actually faith and doubt is contagious. Like when someone doubts and raises a question and we panic, that's not their fault, that something is touching inside of us. And so sometimes we try to fix other people because we don't want to feel disoriented. But perhaps the spirit is doing something where our disorientation is as much a part of the process as theirs. And that's why mentoring isn't for the faint of heart. It's leaning in and recognizing the fact that.
That something powerful is happening here. And this is why we know that where two or three are gathered, Jesus is present. So when we encounter the other, when we encounter emerging adults, we are stepping on holy ground and brushing with the holy. And if we are not prepared to be impacted as well, we're kind of pretending because we're discipling from a distance rather than actually anteing up with an emerging adult as well. And I think that's the scary part of the ministry work that we do is that unless we're willing to.
To kind of be vulnerable ourselves, we're sort of playing church rather than really, really jumping in. And I don't say that lightly. I mean, I say that as much as conviction as anything else. So those are the seven transitions. I'm just going to stop there for a second, and again, I'm just going to remind our great group here on this podcast, as I talked about these, could you see a face or a name of someone that you know or love? I mean, perhaps this is an opportunity for you to actually, actually have a generative conversation with them about something that they care about because they want you to show up where they need you the most.
[00:52:10] Speaker B: Steve. So good. Thank you.
So. So I page of notes, and I've heard this many times already, but there's still new things that you've brought to light for me. And one of the things that I. And I want to be sensitive to your time.
[00:52:26] Speaker A: So just.
[00:52:27] Speaker B: Just a few words that I want to bring out that, that have. Have emerged in my psyche as I'm listening to you. So, one, the relationship piece, I think you used the word deepen, push away, or discover. Were those the three that you kind of lean into? And as I heard you say, That I kept thinking of that person that was in my mind's eye who go through morning change.
This is a traumatic moment for some of them, and they may experience a sense of grief as they have to transition in these relational spaces. And then you, at the same time, touch on the adapting, acclimating space with the question, who do I trust?
[00:53:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:53:08] Speaker B: And trust takes time.
[00:53:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:53:10] Speaker B: And so with that, you know, moving in these relational spaces, which I'm. And Anna will constantly remind me that I have a relational bent, and I'm okay with that.
But as I hear that I'm walking alongside this emerging adult who I'm thinking about, and this time of grief, trauma, morning change, who do I trust? That takes time, and we don't often make the time for that. And then it's this space of naming. Goodbye is hard.
Saying goodbye is hard.
And as I think about our young adults, and my children went through it, and I'm thinking, my grandchildren are going to be going through it at some point.
It saddens me when or if they don't have somebody in their life.
And this is where I'm bringing in the renegotiating faith report that we constantly remind our churches about that as they go through the starts and stops of ministry life, or whatever we call it, that in those gap spaces of those transitions, that if they don't have somebody journeying with them, it makes it extremely difficult to navigate.
[00:54:23] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:54:24] Speaker B: So that's what I was pulling out as you were describing that. So I just needed to share that with you.
[00:54:29] Speaker A: Thanks, Ron. Yeah, I think it's so good. Let me offer a challenge, an encouragement and some practical. Would that be okay?
[00:54:36] Speaker C: Yeah, I think that's for sure.
[00:54:37] Speaker A: Here's the challenge. I sat in a room with about 20 emerging adults, and I said, what do you need from churches?
We would love a mentor. I mean, you could hear it. You could hear it throughout this. We would love a mentor. And I'm like, well, why don't. I'm like. And then I was trying to help them. I do my job. I don't blame adults. I'm like, well, why don't you go ask for one? You know, I mean, you know. And they're like, well, we want to, but we look at. We look at the people that we want to mentor us, and they seem busier than we do, and we don't want to bother them.
[00:55:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:55:06] Speaker A: So I think if we're not careful, I think we communicate that we are so busy that we don't really have time to do that. And I didn't have an answer for that, but I was just thinking, well, how do I communicate that I'm too busy for people? I'm busy. There's no doubt about it. We all are. Right? But I don't want that to be the impression that emerging adults have of me, that I'm too busy. I get it all the time with my students. They'll email me. They're like, I know you're really busy, but. And I have a rule with my students. I say, you can never use that phrase ever in an email, or I'll make you. I love that. I'll make you rewrite it. Because I'm never too busy for you. Number one, you paid for it.
But number two, I'm never too busy for you. It's my small way of trying to find. Fight that flow that we say, Right? So that's kind of a challenge for us, I think. But here's some hope.
We know from the data we asked emerging adults in our work, we said, hey, you know, about half were. Like, a number of them were connected with churches. So we asked them. So, like, was your church aware of the transition you were going through? And about half said they were. Like, the churches were aware.
And then we said, okay, if they were aware.
I said, did you feel like they supported you through the transition? And about 90% said that they did. What was interesting, what was interesting is we asked those, we asked them, what emotions did you feel as you went through this transition? Those that did not have churches that were aware or supportive. The top three were lonely, anxious, and afraid. Okay.
Those that felt as though their church was aware and supported them. The top three were hopeful, anxious, and excited.
Okay. So the anxious anxiety stayed there, which is. I mean, that's just natural, right? But loneliness and fear were replaced by hope and excitement. And so I think the thing I want to encourage leaders out there is like, is any of this worth.
Is not because I said it, but because emerging adults said it. And what does awareness mean?
They just knew you were. They were like, we just knew they were going through something. Like, there was. It wasn't rocket science. And the support, if you listen to the stories, they were super basic. Like, they spent time with me. They helped me find a new church. They sent a card of when my grandmother died. Right. So I think that listening to a podcast like this can feel complicated and overwhelming, and there's a weight to it. I'm not going to pull us out of that.
There is an awareness and support that faith communities can give emerging Adults that they really appreciate and it actually makes a difference in their lives. And so I just want to encourage you with that, all of you. I mean, I think that there's tremendous amount of hope here. And so with that, you're like, well, what can we do? And I got a couple of things for you, okay?
Number one, be yourselves as a church. Please do not try to be like the church down the road.
[00:58:09] Speaker C: Don't be weird.
[00:58:10] Speaker A: No, don't be weird.
[00:58:11] Speaker B: Don't be weird.
[00:58:12] Speaker A: Just be yourself. You have your own strengths, you have your own ability, and that's all anybody expects you to be. And just be the best version of yourself. So let me just encourage you with that. Second of all, I just would say start with emerging adults, you know, not the ones out there. I think sometimes we're like, we gotta get the emerging adults. Like we live next to a campus or like they're all downtown, you know, put out the met, put out the net, right? But you know what, there's a lot of emerging adults that are either went through your youth group, are grandchildren of your parishioners, are children of your parishioners, Just start with them. You don't have to do anything big or flashy like just start with them and start talking with them. I would encourage you all to have conversations about things that they really want to talk about. Now again, Ron made a good point. Trust. Like, you can't walk up to somebody and be like, tell me your deepest, darkest secrets. That's not going to happen. But I think when you have a sense of these seven transitions and they start to talk, you can be like, oh, it really sounds like you're trying to sort of recalibrate your most important relationships. Is that what it's like?
You know, it's a relating transition. You don't have to say that, but they'll be like, yeah, it is, right?
So have confidence to do that. And I would just say, go for it. Don't wait for an emerging adult to like talk to you about it. Just they want to talk with you. They may not know how. So both be awkward and be okay with that.
As I mentioned before, create short term connection options rather than long term ones. That's going to mean a lot to them.
Also, help them lead their visions, not yours. I think a lot of times we think that, oh my gosh, as an emerging doll tier, you would be great in children's ministry. Have we got a place for you, right? Ask them, like, hey, what are you working on? Like, how could, how could I help you like, what do you think the church could do to help you with that project? Or who you're becoming? Step into their visions and the resources that you have. And I think then what will happen is oftentimes they'll realize, wow, maybe there's something I can give to the church as well. And then I would just say, listen for their questions. They'll raise them.
Their questions aren't their own. They're usually questions that they are all talking about.
And a lot of times I think that emerging adults can be great cultural informers of what's really going on in your conversation. And with all that, let me just say one final theological thing, and then I'll be quiet. This is more than just like making emerging adults feel. Well, I think a lot of emerging adults feel that because their lives are in transitions, they don't belong, that they really aren't part of a community until they settle down and then they grow up. And no one has said that overtly, but that's what they feel.
As I look at the Scriptures, I find that oftentimes the people that were most attuned to the movement of God were not the people that were in stable spaces, but were in unstable spaces.
You have the children of God wandering in the wilderness, and somehow they're able to kind of find their way as they follow fire and smoke and everything else that comes with that way.
But as soon as they settle down, that's when the idol shows up. Right?
So might it be that people in transition actually are in tune to the spirit of God? When we think about the early church, like, you have people running all over the place, right. It's kind of crazy, but as soon as they settle down, that's when the infighting happens and they get a letter from Paul. Right. So is it possible that the people in motion actually are in this liminal space, this thin space that might have a vantage point of the Holy? That we who are in stable spaces have something to learn from them. They don't have to wait till they're stable. It's actually where they are that is a blessing not only to them, but to the whole community as well. And let's be honest, whether we have churches or not, we are all pilgrims on a journey toward a new heaven and new earth. And I think sometimes, perhaps this generation can remind us of our own in motion ness. That is not an exception, but perhaps is the rule. Now, when I tell this to emerging adults, they sit up a little straighter because they perhaps are realizing that there's a place for them in the communities of which they are par from and they don't feel quite as ashamed anymore.
[01:02:31] Speaker C: More.
[01:02:31] Speaker A: Perhaps that's something you can think about as you think about your own communities. Perhaps. I just gave you a great sermon illustration for this Sunday and you are welcome.
[01:02:41] Speaker C: I have to preach this Sunday. I might just take that. You know, I think, Steve, what is just so, it, it's just so top of mind for me is just the emphasis of starting somewhere tools that you have.
And I think, you know, we talk a lot about what's your one next faithful step. And I, I'm so grateful that you started by saying it's, it's so practical. And I, I, I would like to leave everyone kind of mulling over this, right. Which is like when we talked to mentors, one of the mentors said to us, I had no idea that I had made an impact in this young woman's life. In fact, she, she had been mentoring this woman for eight years.
Eight years. She was invited to her wedding and she had no idea of the impact that she was making because she was like, it just felt like every day like I just felt like I was texting her, I was just walking alongside of her. And then she asked this young adult, per our prompting, can you ask them what your, their experience has been like? And she was in tears as she was reading this text, this long text that she got from her, her student.
And I think that's the invitation is, it's not necessarily some programmatic, so start, it's not, you know, let's make the church start this ministry opportunity. It's really just the one next faithful step is who's around you.
And also kind of the last piece that I would just say is what are you going through?
Where are you currently? Because some of that is important when you're coming alongside of a young person as well. Because what I heard you say is that faith is going to continue to grow. Other people's faith questions are going to continue to grow one another's questions.
And so you have to be in tune with both yourself and the young people.
So that super powerful. I'm so excited to kind of hear how people come alongside of these transitions and just think about what, what God might be inviting them into as they step into community.
[01:04:36] Speaker A: I love that, Anna. I absolutely love that. Thank you.
[01:04:39] Speaker B: I just so appreciate you coming on Steve, and helping us with this. This has been a joy for me. You're a friend, a colleague and, and someone who we just so value.
One of the things we're working on at Generation Spark is what we call an intergenerational toolkit. And we're actually using some of your transitions to help people. Then one, identify the reality of it. And then two, here are some things that you can take on next. Here's some biblical intersections, here's some resources, et cetera. And so that'll be available in a link for this podcast, so that'll be cool as well. Steve, one of the things that we want to do is ask what are the resources might be available for people as they contemplate this? You know, it's really easy to go and say growing with a book that you co wrote with Kara Powell, but are there other things that people can be pointed towards that would help them through these. Through these conversations?
[01:05:34] Speaker A: Yeah. Thanks for asking. And again, I just appreciate you both. This has just been such a great conversation.
We've tried to, without getting into programming, we've. We've tried to come up with what we call on the GO resources. These are actually small group discussion guides on the seven transitions that you can, that you can purchase from the Fuller Youth Institute. You can buy the whole packet and get a discount as well. And there's actually one that's free. So if you're like, well, I don't know where to begin. Well, here's some transitions with great questions and prompts to help you with that. We also have a podcast called the FYI and youth ministry and season 10 is on the transitions. And we actually A talk with emerging adults about these decisions.
[01:06:13] Speaker C: Real life one.
[01:06:15] Speaker A: Yeah, so, yeah, so that one would just be great. Some churches have actually, like listened to the podcast with emerging adults and gone through like one a week and have actually done that. And that's really turned into some generative conversations. So we're trying to help you start those conversations. And I think that that would be really great. A bit broader just in case anybody's interested. I'm obviously faculty member here at Fuller. A lot of times people have said to me, I just want to study this myself. And I run a doctor of Youth Ministry, a doctor of Youth, Family and Culture cohort that we'll be doing in the fall of 26. And so if that's something you're interested in, I could put a link in for you. I'd love to chat with you about your dreams if that's something that you are interested in. And you can also go to stevenargue.com there's a bunch of stuff about me there and stuff that I'm working on. That you can take advantage of as well.
[01:07:04] Speaker B: Wonderful. Thank you, Steve. Anna, any final thoughts, Any comments that you need to share yet?
[01:07:09] Speaker C: Steve, thank you so much. Just continue to keep investing in the young leaders that you have entrusted to you. We know that they are deeply blessed. We're deeply blessed by the amazing leaders that you continue to mobilize and we're just so grateful. Thank you so much.
[01:07:23] Speaker A: Thanks, Anna. Grateful for you, Ron. I'm grateful for you. And to everybody listening to this, Bless you. Bless you for loving young people. Don't stop doing it even when it's hard.
We are cheering for you and believing in you and we'll do whatever we can on our end to continue to cheer you out through the work that we're doing. Grace and peace.
[01:07:40] Speaker B: Thank you. And for those of you who you can't see us, I see Steve's wonderful big smile and I just so appreciate his passion for this ministry. Listeners, thank you for being with us. And as Steve has blessed you going out, we look forward to the next time we have a chance to interact with you. So long everyone. Bye bye.
[01:07:59] Speaker C: Bye.
